Confused

[PeakedinthePeaks]

Hi, I'm new to all the current debates around feminism and feminism itself and have lurked a lot and posted a little.
I'm confused over a conversation I had with a colleague last week discussing self ID and the concerns women are raising. Is it possible to be a feminist and have no issue with all inclusive toilets and changing rooms and to believe that trans women are women? I didn't think so but like I said, I'm new to the subject and realise the answers are probably in other posts somewhere but couldn't find a title to match my question.
I am very uncomfortable with all inclusive toilets and have been following GRA discussions.
Can you be a feminist and support the GRA?

PeakedInPs is a RadFem now
Dakinis would like to know how
She posted asking a question to
Which the answer she already knew.

Totally agree that Dakinis - you do you. You share - we won't stop you. Now, we want to do us, and that means we don't consent. Why do you want to override our consent? What makes you want to override our consent? Why are you so obsessed with making us share facilities with male-bodied people? You can do it, with our blessing if you like, but why are you so dead set on forcing us to share?

Ah jeez you're welcome OP. Why ask about other viewpoints if you already know you're a rad fem.

Here's how Peak Trans works. Women hear a pile of male-centred, woman-erasing shite and lies such as 'sex offenders are never housed in the female estate' and realise that supporting this runaway train is not actually in their best interests - nor that of all other women.

Yes, it's very revealing.

Conflicted, liberal minded woman seeks answers.

#NoDebate elsewhere doesn't play here, and the TRA lies are laid bare by reasoned conversation.

Conflicted woman sees reality for what it is and in response, the TRAs turn and throw out an accusation like 'You already made up your mind/you don't want to listen/you're mean'.

Conflicted woman knows those accusations aren't true and it dawns on them that if the TRA is prepared to deny reality and malign them, the TRA isn't the one with the answers.

It's not the GC posters of FWR that make MN a Radicalisation Portal. The Radicalizers are, and have always been the TRAs. We just let the sunlight in.

Dakinis a rad fem? Am I? I don't t even know what that means but I'm sure you'll enlighten me.

My viewpoint was that I was confused that my colleague who claimed to be a feminist was saying she had no issue with unisex facilities and believed that TWAW. To me she was not making sense. You can't argue with basic biology . How can unisex facilities be in line with the rights of women? So I asked more knowledgable posters to explain. They confirmed what I already believed. And apparently now I'm a rad fem 🤷🏼‍♀️

And apparently now I'm a rad fem

Haha I never thought there would come a time when I'd burn with homicidal rage on behalf of lesbians, but there you go, now it happens daily.

Isn't it interesting that those who so vigorously affirm the rights of some to a self identified identity being heard, valued and respected, are so firm and disrespectful in labelling others.

Yeah peaked , sorry, there's your marker of 'disobedient woman'. Aka, outcast, harridan, burn the witch, pick your century If you believed that men write the rule book, you must respect them and it's awful if you don't and they get cross with you, then you'd have a problem. If so just ask for a lifebelt and gin and the other witches have you covered.

But I expect you're fine.

And apparently now I'm a rad fem

This is how it happens.

We need a ‘radicalised by Mumsnet’ graphic, bit like the ‘approved by’ ones they put on fish fingers.

My "Hands off my rights" t-shirt arrived today.

I ordered the men's version, as I always buy men's t-shirts.

Look at me, GNC my whole fucking life and not a hint of thinking I'm a different "gender"...

OP to put it simply you can choose to include trans women with women in relation to feminist discussion or you can exclude them.

Radical feminists (rad fems) generally exclude trans women, liberal or left leaning feminists generally include them. This isn't an exact science, there is overlap. The point is despite this fundamental disagreement we are all feminists, just different types of feminists.

Dakinis

Every single one of those men would get automatic transfer to a female prison if they had a GRC. Automatic.

This just isn't true. Will Ian Huntley get an automatic transfer? Of course not. There will always be assessments on prisoners to see if they are playing the system.

Well, my little rhymer, I believe you're behind the times. As far as I know Ian Huntley would be given a place in the female estate. The only thing that may stop him being housed with actual women, is if he is considered to be in need of the highest security possible. The reason being, there is no such maximum security facility in the female estate.

It is housed in the male estate. If, however, there was a woman in that facility (there isn't) he would be housed with them. He would be treated as a woman. It's written in the policy in black-and-white.

I've already mentioned Tara Hudson, violent transwoman (the screenshot is her telling Victoria Derbyshire and Nic Williams to fuck off because Nic suggested a trans wing) who head butted and knocked out the teeth of a bouncer, after a string of other offences and was housed in the female estate, whilst advertising their 7 inch surprise on porn sites.

Also Karen Smith, paedophile and self-confessed rapist who has just attacked four women in the female estate. And been convicted of sexual assaulting them.

Also Michelle Lewin paedophile and sex offender who was sent to female prison. Also Martin Ponting, rapist.

But, I'm sure you know all this.

OP to put it simply you can choose to include trans women with women in relation to feminist discussion or you can exclude them.

Oh give over. This is just label seeking.

No-one can stop anyone 'doing feminism'. Donate, volunteer, campaign. No-one can stop anyone doing that. It's a nonsense to even suggest it.

The more the merrier.

What feminism doesn't do is centre men. Even men who say they are women.

People complain about not being included are not interested in feminism. They're just interested in the label. It's nonsense.

@BabyItsAWildWorld

You're not alone in that lightbulb moment.

There is quite a significant illumination to realising that it really is a bunch of men deciding what constitutes women. For their own personal gain. And all them having a different opinion!

This thread is very eye-opening. It's long, and detours a little two thirds of the way through, but it's one of the most important threads I've ever read on here.

And it's not boring...

Take wine.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3364094-Debbie-Hayton-in-the-Times

It's co opting 'feminism' as just another label in the carousel of identity politics. It's fuck all to do with what feminism actually means. You just Pomo the meaning into whatever suits you, et voilà! You are a feminist. See also: Lesbian and Woman

This is for Datun from your 'little Rhymer'

Posters like that Dakini
Are all about equality
When they post on FWR
Their views are most unpopular
Won't call trans women men
Refuse to give it oxygen
Will never, ever go rad fem
So you do you and I'll do me
We're always going to disagree
You keep insisting you are right
I didn't come on here to fight
So, my little rad fem, until next time
I wish you well... enjoy your wine

Posters like that Dakini
Are all about equality
With some being more equal than others.

my little rad fem

Why is she little? What does that mean?

Oh dear God this is getting tedious Dakinis . The very last thing you're all about is 'equality'. Or anything involving rights for or the interests of biological women. And you didn't come here to fight...jeez.

Women take note: this is the quality of debate you get from self ID proponents. This is the respect they treat women with. This is the extent of their ability to actually reason or debate or explain. This is what they think of you.

Is Dakinis a man? Or just a handmaiden?

Dakinis

Seriously now, please can you bring yourself up to speed on the situation regarding male people and female prisons. Most posters on this thread are up to date and informed.

I've linked one thread of many, but the feminist chat board has at least three prison threads just on the first page.

If I had just declared incorrectly to a bunch of people I was arguing with, that 'no such thing would ever happen' and was confronted with a very different reality, I probably would
A. Shut up for a short hiatus
B. Do some reading to ascertain whether it was true
C. Come back to the thread with either a stronger refutation that the 'rad fems' are making it all up, or with an apology for my supercilious attitude and a slice of humble pie.

I wouldn't be hanging around still posting poems after someone had just pointed me in the direction of done very hard, very disturbing evidence that male bodied murderous rapists and paedophiles, both with and without GRCs are in female prisons as we speak.

There was a mention of 'us women'. Take a moment to think on how many times you've ever seen that phrase used around MN.

OP first rule of feminism - don't dismiss other women as 'handmaidens'. It goes against the very nature of female empowerment.

Even the raddest of rad fems concede that women who disagree with them are able to form their own independent opinions.

‘Empowerment’ is bullshit.

Feminists want liberation.

What Betty said.