British Gymnastics also have drunk the koolaid

[GColdtimer]

So my dds gym coach sent me the guidelines, knowing my stance on these matters and asked what I thought (well he said he probably knew what I thought but wanted to share).

Here you go:

On Definitions:

1.3 -Children sometimes know from a very young age and change their gender role sometimes before starting or during their early years in school. Others may only become fully aware when puberty starts. In some cases, such feelings may be repressed for many years.

1.6-1.7 refer to the EA, protected characteristics and the WEC

The rest of section one refers to the guidelines set down by the IOC etc which appear to be all about testosterone rather than muscle mass, lung capacity, strength etc.

1.15 says that pre16 boys (who identify as girls, purely because they feel like a girl) can compete alongside girls. Funny how it doesn’t mention trans boys. Is this because, perhaps, a 15 year old female bodied trans boy probably wouldn't want to compete alongside the boys because they will likely loose.

5.6 explains what being trans is about all over again "Signs can appear at a very young age e.g. a child refusing to wear typical clothes of their gender or taking part in non- typical games."

7.11 - Changing Rooms: Competition organisers must ensure that all participants are able to have access to changing rooms and toilets, according to the gender in which they present. It is not acceptable to restrict them to using disabled toilets or other unisex facilities unless this is specifically requested by the participant.

So boys can get changed with the girls because they say they are girls. And girls cannot complain or express their unease at this situation. What about protecting girls safety, dignity, privacy.

In their notes: "If an individual remains unhappy about a trans person using facilities appropriate to their gender identity, then they should make alternative arrangements” So basically if a teenage girl doesn’t want to get changed with a boy, it tough. She should go elsewhere.

And then this gem:

Residential events: As far as possible, trans people should be able to sleep in a room appropriate to their gender identity. However, some trans people may not feel comfortable doing this and in such cases alternative sleeping arrangements should be considered for privacy reasons. It is important to consider the options in advance and find out if they would prefer a separate room if this option would be available. Again, what about the girls privacy.

Who wrote these guidelines? Oh look, Stonewall and Mermaids advised.

I need to go for a run to calm down.

If schools have to have single sex toilets and changing for over 8's, how is this organisation any different?

FFS ! 😡
Mind you, how have Boys got the bodies for Girls’ Gymnastics 🤔? It’s a completely different discipline. Women gymnasts are normally tiny.

Surely this is dangerous. Skeletal and muscular differences must make some moves more painful/difficult?

Don't forget that the girls 'have' to wear leotards and no pants (which is also a sexist bugbear for me) so I wonder how the trans girls will fit into that so to speak, if they say that they can wear what the boys wear, then I see no reason that the girls can now start wearing sensible attire I.e. Long legged leotards or shorts

Here you go mamas:

7.8 To ensure that male to female trans gymnasts are not identifiable, the rules for any domestic competition open to female gymnasts must permit any participants to wear gymnastics shorts or tights without deduction. No deductions are permitted where an item of clothing worn by a female to male trans athletes such as a chest binder is visible when worn with a leotard or unitard. Information about a participant’s trans status will only be disclosed to competition organisers on a strict need to know basis if it is necessary to avoid a judging penalty. Any enquires relating to clothing should be addressed to the British Gymnastics Integrity and Compliance Director or home country equivalent.

I have never seen girls wearing shorts or tights at a competition though, its just not the done thing.

Here is a link to the whole thing:

BG trans guidelines

I will write when I have calmed down.

Paul Hunt needed here! Although probably not long before he is denounced............ (I just happened to come across some of his old routines on the web last night!).

Since when has the idea of boys clothes and games/girls clothes and games been seen as progressive. I can’t believe some of the sexism that is tolerated in the name of supposed “inclusivity”.

OK, I really am off for a run. I may post in AIBU later for more traffic. So much wrong with this.

Mamas (totally agree with you on the shorts/pants thing) I may try and get everyone to wear shots at the next comp and show them their own guidelines. FFS.

Why not just let adult men compete with adult women? Why the cut off age?

Are these guidelines issued by the governing English Gymnastics body?

Sorry, took me too long to type my question.

It's all very well having these guidelines but will trans girls do the beam? And will trans boys progress onto the rings which requires massive strength and control. I would have thought gymnastics would be an area where it would be impossible to compete in the class of sex opposite to the natal sex. One to watch with interest I would say.

two

I'm sure someone said that the no pants thing was because it ruins the lines and they need to he able to see of the legs are straight and if the hips are positioned correctly.

So either that's nonsense and it's purely cosmetic or they are going to have to secretly adapt the lines of the different pelvis shapes in their heads

There are some sports where child protection can be a real issue and constant vigilance is needed. Gymnastics, an individual sport with participation from an early age, long training hours, competing away from home, close coach/athlete relationships and an emphasis on body shape, is one. Look no further than the problems faced by the American Olympic team.

There is no excuse for not having a wide consultation with participants and/or tgeir parents, as well as the many dedicated volunteers who will be very aware of potential issues. Even when this policy is adopted there will need to be a lot of further guidance. For example will 15 year old girls be told in advance that they will be sharing with a 15 year old biological male? Or will the trans persons privacy be paramount? Imposing policy, without consultation, inevitably leads to unintended outcomes. In this case potentially dangerous outcomes.

Perhaps the sports body's insurers could be asked to step in and assess the additional risk. Or an approach to facility owners (local authorities, schools) pointing out child protection concerns.

Government guidelines on Sex discrimination and the Equality Act

"Indirect discrimination happens when an organisation has a particular policy or way of working that applies in the same way to both sexes but which puts you at a disadvantage because of your sex."

Allowing a boy to change in a girls' changing room is clear indirect discrimination.

5.6 explains what being trans is about all over again "Signs can appear at a very young age e.g. a child refusing to wear typical clothes of their gender or taking part in non- typical games."

Really? So a girl who plays rugby or a boy who enjoys netball are not expressing their individual preferences but their innate gender identity?

What about a boy who likes ballet? Non-typical activity. Check. Non-typical clothes. Check. So all ballet-interested boys are transgender? Girls in jeans and boots are trans? Girls who like building things? Boys who can sew?

What about horse riders? They all wear the same gear. Are they automatically intersex?

What an absolute load of dangerous nonsense.

Instead of encouraging kids to experiment with things to discover their interests and aptitudes, we're forcing them to either ignore their individuality in favour of narrow stereotypes or "change" sex, with all its accompanying physical and mental risks.

I think

That when I watch the gymnastics and see that the womens stuff is much more dancey / prancey / makeup etc and the mens is more strength and less dancey rarely prancey and no makeup

That while I get that the bodies are different with lots of the mens stuff being all about upper body strength

Why do they really have to be different?
Shouldn't they have all the discplines for both sexes?
Ditto synchronised swimming where they seem to do a very odd intro piece now which I dont' remmeber before- can the men do synchronised swimming yet? Are they "allowed" to do it the same as the women complete with sticky outy hip poses and stuff in the pre bit and plenty of makeup?
Synchronised swimming is fucking hard but also more "glam" I suppose - I'm sure there are men who woudl like to do it.
There is precedent with the frills and glitter of ice skating (the dancey stuff not the speed stuff :D).

Anyway.

There should be no separation with this sport is for girls and this for boys.

However

No fucking way should boys be allowed to compete AGAINST girls just by uttering the magic words "I'm female"
And anyone who does that gets to change, shower and bunk with the girls
And any girls who dont' feel comfortable with that can leave.

Fucking awful.

two falls this is very very dangerous.
I did gymnastics as a girl and I was good and I loved it so much. i did other sports too and was good. One of the most difficult things was hitting puberty, because of periods and the hip change which means your centre of gravity shifts and for gymnasts that is really tough. My periods were so difficult, I stopped doing all sports, by the time I was 14.

I remember my mother telling me that there were rumours that Romania was giving its young gymnasts drugs to block puberty. I would have tried to get them any way if I could have. Now if I was a young gymnast I'd be ordering them off the internet. Im sure, or asking for puberty blockers until I was sure about my gender.

Sorry if this is a bit of a derail,

Or for higher levels the coaches will just be dishing them out surely?

Telling them what to say if anyone asks.

i suspect that some countries will already be scouring for talented male competitors who are not quite in the running for the mens but would win in the womens

And talking to them about the opportunities that exist should they decide to temporarily reduce their testosterone

And in some countries those people win't really have much of a choice

Omfg
Okay so this is another girl guides debacle isn't it
No consultation or consideration for the girls
Another campaign of emails and pointing out the bleeding obvious with another organisation then
Hopefully every time this happens and all the dangers pointed out it can only peak the whole nation?

Would transboys be allowed to take testosterone and compete?

So girls that play football or rugby are not real girls but pseudo boys ?

FFS This stuff is fecking bonkers

Why don’t they just tell girls to fuck th3 fuck off and be honest about

Women tend to be more flexible than men, our ligaments etc have different structures. I doubt there will be many men wanting to identify into rhythmic gymnastics for instance.

•NothingOnTelly* I did the "dance prance stuff" its a really, really tough disciple, and I loved it. Of course the mens will be more strength. they have different bodies. I think the different disciplines in for men and women take into account the body differences we have.

I do hear you about the make up etc

Or anyone puberty blockers as per @MsBeee