British Gymnastics also have drunk the koolaid

[GColdtimer]

So my dds gym coach sent me the guidelines, knowing my stance on these matters and asked what I thought (well he said he probably knew what I thought but wanted to share).

Here you go:

On Definitions:

1.3 -Children sometimes know from a very young age and change their gender role sometimes before starting or during their early years in school. Others may only become fully aware when puberty starts. In some cases, such feelings may be repressed for many years.

1.6-1.7 refer to the EA, protected characteristics and the WEC

The rest of section one refers to the guidelines set down by the IOC etc which appear to be all about testosterone rather than muscle mass, lung capacity, strength etc.

1.15 says that pre16 boys (who identify as girls, purely because they feel like a girl) can compete alongside girls. Funny how it doesn’t mention trans boys. Is this because, perhaps, a 15 year old female bodied trans boy probably wouldn't want to compete alongside the boys because they will likely loose.

5.6 explains what being trans is about all over again "Signs can appear at a very young age e.g. a child refusing to wear typical clothes of their gender or taking part in non- typical games."

7.11 - Changing Rooms: Competition organisers must ensure that all participants are able to have access to changing rooms and toilets, according to the gender in which they present. It is not acceptable to restrict them to using disabled toilets or other unisex facilities unless this is specifically requested by the participant.

So boys can get changed with the girls because they say they are girls. And girls cannot complain or express their unease at this situation. What about protecting girls safety, dignity, privacy.

In their notes: "If an individual remains unhappy about a trans person using facilities appropriate to their gender identity, then they should make alternative arrangements” So basically if a teenage girl doesn’t want to get changed with a boy, it tough. She should go elsewhere.

And then this gem:

Residential events: As far as possible, trans people should be able to sleep in a room appropriate to their gender identity. However, some trans people may not feel comfortable doing this and in such cases alternative sleeping arrangements should be considered for privacy reasons. It is important to consider the options in advance and find out if they would prefer a separate room if this option would be available. Again, what about the girls privacy.

Who wrote these guidelines? Oh look, Stonewall and Mermaids advised.

I need to go for a run to calm down.

Brass I've reported your post for the use of the word "tranny" which is not appropriate.

the law requires that trans people are treated in the way that anyone else that shares the gender to which they identify.

So, if all trans girls and trans women were required to use the male changing rooms there would be no problem as everyone who shares that gender identity is being treated in the same way?

Well, once we've all perfected and introduced the "walking under a low bar" event suggested by (I think) Rat, they will be a shoo-in for gold

I (sort of) feel the need to point out this wasn't Rat, but Snappity

Quick update. Tried to talk to the person who wrote the guidelines. She said it has nothing to do with her and refused to talk to me. Was put through to someone else (Integrity Director) but was told by his assistant that he had gone into a meeting to discuss the issue I was phoning about. She said the phones have been going mad today. (When I tried to call at 2pm I was 15th in a queue, I can't imagine that many people try and phone BG on a Thursday afternoon normally!).

twofalls - A round of applause to you.

I hope that you manage to have a chat and that BG retracts that document and issues a clarification.

Integrity Director?!

So, Dd did ballet on a Saturday, and rugby on a Sunday. Not sure where on the BG scale of male-female that would put her . But she also did trampolining during the week, and missed Sunday morning rugby every so often for trampolining competitions.

So, assuming she was a boy on a Sunday, would that have meant she had to change with the boys at trampolining? She'd have had a huge advantage if she was considered a boy, as there were significantly fewer boys competing at her age and grade class, and her skill level was quite a lot better (at young teenager age, boys seemed much less controlled in their moves, and didn't yet have the strength of the older boys/men which would have gained them difficulty points).

Maybe there's something in this "what gender do you feel like" business - how many 12/13 year old girls in trampoline clubs fancy a much better chance at a competition medal?

I just read this to 13yo dd who was horrified, even after having had many conversations with me on this topic. Madness.

So maybe everyone should call up tomorrow to keep the pressure on? The Integrity Director is Richard Evans and BG's phone number is 0345 1297129.

AIBU?

Did you draw that Time? You are talented!

Can everyone who has contacted them please email [email protected]

just sent an email.

Twofalls - sorry if this should be obvious, does this policy apply to trans coaches?

I think it does. I will double check though. link here

Can everyone please email or call Richard Evans, so called integrity fucking director telling him where the trans guidelines contradict their safeguarding advice. He tells me they don't and quoted the equalities act at me.

0345 1297129 Ext. 2693
07860852605
[email protected]

(this is public record, it is on his email sign off).

He said he didn't know enough about it. They didn't consult with the organisations listed and they don't endorse them apparently. When I asked him to take the guidelines down pending an investigation he refused. He was an arrogant arsehole and I am fucking fuming. He told me I have to wait for his official response, he was not going to discuss it with me over the phone.

So there you go. Unless we make a bit fuss of this I expect nothing will happen.

twofalls. I have just looked him up on Linked In.He has a media/PR background. Not a sports or safeguarding one. He has not been there that long.

Is there someone in BG who looks after clubs or grassroots development.

Gymnasts really dont need to be setting prescedents on this issue. Because of liability/safeguarding etc they are much better allowing the Government/Sport England to set policy, taking part inconsultatio as appropriate, and then complying. To introduce these sorts of changes, with such huge ramifications, without proper grassroots consultation, is bonkers. Public relations 101, I would have thought.

Perhaps he is having a bad day at the office.

Twofalls I understand why you are fuming. I would have been had the same happened in the sport DD loved. It would have felt as if her commitment was not valued, nor was her safety.

I don’t think it specifically mentions coaches, although it is very clear that non one should disclose transition or indeed a GRC. So that part at least applies to adults and a “trans person should not be restricted from carrying out club activities in their self declared gender”.

I think mentioning Mr D Challoner as one of their previous/recent coaches might be a good idea for everyone emailing him on this...

Vicky

I mentioned Challanor in my email, but I didn't realise he was a coach. FFS just how much influence does that family have?

twofalls, I had a quick look at Sport England's safeguarding pages. They claim to offer advice to sports and clubs. You could forward what you have to them, explaining why you/your DDs coach are concerned.

My guess is that Sport England has a much better chance of having their phone calls taken.

(I once contacted them directly over a planning/faciliies issue as DDs sport clearly did not understand why they needed to engage when facilities were under threat, or how to. They were brilliant. I think there is an understanding that individual sports are not well resourced, and will not have mastered all the issues. )

Thank you need I will do that. It's a good idea.

Have gym today so am going to talk to some of the other parents about it.

If I have got my facts correct...

Stonewall advised both British Gymnastics and Girl Guides on their policy changes.

Aimee Challenor is on the Stonewall Trans Advisory board so presumably would have been involved with this.

Aimee and David Challenor worked together on political projects (at least for some of them).

With David Challenor's background as a gymnastics coach and Scout leader, there is a good chance that David was, whether directly or indirectly, influencing this work. After all, he would be seen to have relevant expertise.

Doesn't this raise massive red flags around safeguarding?

That policy changes that expose girls to male-bodied people in changing rooms, overnight accommodation and washing facilities may have been partly influenced by a paedophile rapist?

Why don't you contact these ?

Would be interested in their response although I would expect it this be pretty bland.

thecpsu.org.uk