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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Dr Nicola Williams on BBC2 at 10.15, Victoria Live

360 replies

PersistenceIsNotFutile · 10/09/2018 10:06

Twitter thread here: twitter.com/AskNic/status/1039073161252364288

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
JillyArmeeen · 10/09/2018 11:25

It was a bar man's teeth Hudson broke with a headbutt. So girly.
Also has 12 previous convictions including one for battery.
Not someone I would want to be anywhere near.
Interesting Tara mentioned if they commit more crimes, with a long record like that, it's almost if they know they can't help themselves.

LangCleg · 10/09/2018 11:26

Yeah and where was Victoria’s special sad voice and face for the women that were sexually assaulted.

This! My term for Victoria's special sad voice is Sonorous Tones R Us.

R0wantrees · 10/09/2018 11:27

TELI are throwing all their toys out of the pram

The TELI twitter account has been increasingly emotive in recent weeks

"Trans Equality Legal Initiative
The Trans Equality Legal Initiative is a new initiative aiming to provide the ultimate forum for the discussion of trans rights in the United Kingdom. Covering important legal areas such as healthcare, education, justice and international protection, the initiative will be at the forefront of trans rights, bringing together experts and activists from across the legal and LGBT spheres.

It is our belief that strategic litigation is a very important tool in the advancement of trans rights, and this will be at the forefront of our efforts as we explore the various issues facing the trans community."

Our Vision
The Trans Equality Legal Initiative works to build a collective and strategic response to the widespread and entrenched discrimination and inequality experienced by members of the trans community. The founders came together with this aim after the Government released the 'Transgender Equality Inquiry'. This was the first Government Inquiry into the discrimination and abuse suffered by members of the trans community in the UK. The report outlined the systemic discrimination faced by this community in almost every aspect of their private and public lives.

Through TELI, we hope to bring together human rights lawyers, third sector trans activist organisations, academics, equality and diversity experts and members of the trans, non-binary and queer community to pool our knowledge, expertise and skill base to inform both strategic litigation and to assist in lobbying for clear and concrete measures to secure equality and safety for members of the trans community. We also hope to consolidate expertise in this area of law to help inform practitioners and activists." (continues)
www.teli.org.uk/our-vision/

known co-founders were Jess Bradley, Tara Hudson and Michelle Brewer (lawyer originally due to answer questions about GRA at WEP conference)

Tara Hewitt describes TELI's formation in a 2016 workshop for HCPs about 'trans people & cancer'
Interestingly in light of the discussion on Victoria Derbyshire, Tara Hewitt makes clear that being trans is not about surgery and includes fetishistic cross-dressers etc:

FloralBunting · 10/09/2018 11:28

Oi oi, littlbrowndog, I am smiling at the 'special sad voice'. So very true. Apart from the bare facts at the beginning, I don't think she referenced the victims at all, did she? And she also said the first guest 'alleges' Karen White was a rapist, but I thought White had now admitted it?

littlbrowndog · 10/09/2018 11:32

Oi oi flora
Oi oi Lang
Sonorous tunes indeed 😂😂

littlbrowndog · 10/09/2018 11:33

Will have to watch again to see what was said

FlowerpotFairyHouse · 10/09/2018 11:33

I reckon Tara shouted it aggressively but the sound had been cut by then.

I agree. Given the finger and the facial expression, I somewhat doubt it was sotto voce.

R0wantrees · 10/09/2018 11:35

from Times today:
"Karen White, 52, a former drag artist from Manchester previously known as Stephen Wood, then David Thompson, claimed to be transgender to the authorities. Despite knowing that White had undergone no physical changes and was a paedophile on remand for multiple rapes with a long record of sexual and violent offences against women, the authorities permitted a transfer to HMP New Hall, a prison near Wakefield with a mother-and-baby unit. White committed the assaults within days of the move and was transferred back to a men’s prison.

The government is holding consultations on proposals to allow people to “self-declare” their legal gender. Campaigners fear that opportunists will exploit the changes to gain access to protected female spaces.

Neighbours at Elphin Court in Mytholmroyd, West Yorkshire, including a transgender woman, recalled how White made little effort to transition. “David just walked into his flat one day as David and walked out the next day as Karen,” she said. When an elderly man used the pronoun “he”, White called the police to report it as a hate crime.

The neighbours said that White “ruled Elphin Court with fear”, threatening an elderly disabled woman and setting off fire alarms, and had been found guilty of stabbing a resident." (continues)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rapist-karen-white-in-women-s-jail-was-trans-faker-lbcwjp8jc

Popchyk · 10/09/2018 11:36

Karen White has now pleaded guilty to four counts of rape.

So no "alleged" about it.

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 10/09/2018 11:42

First image of Tara she was smiling smugly.

First words were cracked as she managed to squeak out "I'm sorry, it makes me emotional"

Last image was of her flipping the bird.

I assume she'd regained her voice, but, the quick fingered sound technician protected us from her bellowing tones.

Comedy gold.

FloralBunting · 10/09/2018 11:42

Poor Victoria. No opportunity for sympathetic head-tilting at all there. Just an awkward sit-in-front-of-tsunami-of-common-sense-and-righteous-anger and try and keep it brief.

R0wantrees · 10/09/2018 11:48

Apart from the bare facts at the beginning, I don't think she referenced the victims at all, did she? And she also said the first guest 'alleges' Karen White was a rapist, but I thought White had now admitted it?

Did VD say this had only come to light recently when White appeared in court?
It was reported in July 2018
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3309758-This-never-happens-male-offenders-in-female-prisons

Fuller reporting of Karen White AKA David Thompson and Stephen Wood's convictions in Sunday Times which included comment by Melissa Briscoe who was on VD Show:
(extract)
"The friend, Melissa Briscoe, recounts the rape victim’s story: “He turned up one evening with a bottle of vodka. She didn’t drink any, but she thinks that he spiked her soft drink. She came to find me to tell me what had happened. She was very distressed, crying and shaking. I took her straight down to the police station.”

“The last thing she remembers was falling asleep. When she came to, she found Stephen Wood raping her. He’d said he was going to help her, get her settled. He’d set himself up as a confidant.”

At the time, Wood was out of prison on licence after serving part of an 18-month sentence for abusing a primary school child. He was staying at the Birch Lane probation hostel in Manchester, where Briscoe was a staff member. The rape victim was visiting one of the other offenders in the hostel.

Briscoe, who also knew Wood and had access to his record, said there was “no sign at all that he was trans”, describing him as a “very manipulative” person who would “develop relationships with vulnerable residents in the hostel and befriend them”. He repeatedly breached his probation conditions, she said, and was not recalled to prison after the rape.

Briscoe, now a senior therapist at a charity, said Wood had a history of seeking access to mixed and women’s institutions to find and abuse vulnerable people. As well as the bail hostel and the prison, she said, police told her Wood had gained admission to a mixed psychiatric ward, where he had repeatedly raped a young woman patient suffering from Asperger’s syndrome.

Further, non-sexual crimes committed by Wood include stabbing his neighbour and committing severe physical violence against his former partner, her daughter and his son. A restraining order prevented him from contacting the son until he turned 18." (continues)

Pending:
"White is now in HMP Armley in Leeds, awaiting sentencing for crimes including the prison assaults and stabbing"

sources:
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/why-was-convicted-paedophile-allowed-to-move-to-a-female-jail-nmpbfm272
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rapist-karen-white-in-women-s-jail-was-trans-faker-lbcwjp8jc

Melamin · 10/09/2018 11:49

Oh my, such an own goal. They are really good at that.

bzzbeebzz · 10/09/2018 11:57

I missed this - is it available to watch anywhere yet?

Alicethroughtheblackmirror · 10/09/2018 11:59

I think it was very interesting. People like Tara were, a few years back, enthusiastically demanding recognition of themselves and their status based on the fact that they 'looked' like women and without the boring business of getting assessed, getting a GRC, or full surgery. Tara managed to whip up a decent amount of sympathy when imprisoned. I think they are starting to realise that they opened the door to all this - because why is Karen a less credible 'woman' than Tara? In both cases we have only their say-so.

That's why Tara was trying to put some clear blue water between Tara and Karen and was being 'reasonable' on not allowing men to transition in prison etc. But it won't wash.

numberseven · 10/09/2018 11:59

When an elderly man used the pronoun “he”, White called the police to report it as a hate crime.

But of course he did. Literal violence and all that.

PencilsInSpace · 10/09/2018 12:01

Here: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0bjjqvd/victoria-derbyshire-10092018

from 1:46

Melamin · 10/09/2018 12:13

why is Karen a less credible 'woman' than Tara?

Indeed. And why is there no proper scrutiny. I think we should know what it is about a man in prison for violent offences that makes him a woman. It should be clear and open and there should be significant input by those affected.

R0wantrees · 10/09/2018 12:13

Tara managed to whip up a decent amount of sympathy when imprisoned.

150,000 people signed the petition to free Hudson or place them in a womans' prison

this was the petition started by Ceri Jenkins:
www.change.org/p/bath-magistrates-prison-govenor-of-hm-prison-bristol-british-judicial-system-stop-transgender-woman-tara-hudson-from-being-sent-to-an-all-male-prison-in-bristol

(extract)
"Trans campaigners estimate that there are between 20 and 30 trans individuals in UK prisons at any time, and that they are some of the most at-risk members of the incarceration system. In fact, transgender women in male prisons are 13 times more likely to be sexually assaulted than in the general population, with 59 percent reporting sexual assaults, according to a frequently cited US study.

According to Amnesty International, globally, LGBT prisoners and those perceived to be LGBT, are at risk of torture, ill-treatment and violence from other inmates as well as prison officials.

Trans people are also at a much higher risk of mental health issues than the rest of the populace. In 2014, a survey found that 48% of trans people under 26 said they had attempted suicide, and 30% said they had done so in the past year, while 59% said they had at least considered doing so. By comparison, about 6% of all 16- to 24-year-olds say they have attempted suicide, according to the Adult Psychiatry Morbidity Survey."

www.theguardian.com/society/2015/dec/03/transgender-woman-who-was-sent-to-male-prison-is-freed

Ceri Jenkins who wrote the petition is the Equality Officer at Bath Spa University.

"Founder of the national Gender Equality Network. Stonewall School Role Model. Columnist for DIVA Magazine. Campaign lead for #ISeeTara, #RechargeAndResist, and #SelfCareAware. I've also enjoyed running an award-winning blog covering current affairs and opinion pieces, as well as contributing to the likes of The Independent, the BBC, and The Huffington Post."

from recent thread about Stephanie /Stephen Mottershead's crime & sentence:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3330210-Violent-yob-41-who-stabbed-man-in-the-liver-during-noise-row-at-apartment-block-will-serve-two-year-sentence-in-an-all-womens-jail?pg=4

PositivelyPERF · 10/09/2018 12:15

Waves to handmaidens. 👋🏼 Still think men who pretend to be women should share female spaces?

BarrackerBarmer · 10/09/2018 12:24

Just a reminder of what Tara "fuck you" Hudson took into the women's estate with Tara.

Dr Nicola Williams on BBC2 at 10.15, Victoria Live
Dr Nicola Williams on BBC2 at 10.15, Victoria Live
bzzbeebzz · 10/09/2018 12:30

Thanks for the link. It was plain common sense and calm intelligence on one side and a quite worryingly unstable and aggressive person on the other.

R0wantrees · 10/09/2018 12:38

When an elderly man used the pronoun “he”, White called the police to report it as a hate crime

Is there likely at some point to be a comment by the police about the numbers and reporting of alleged transphobic 'hate crimes' which are not prosecuted?

Given White's crimes and convictions, this rather puts in stark contrast how police resources should (and shouldn't) be used.

On the VD Show about Mermaids there was a workshop given by a police officer about hate crimes and Susie Green made reference to the number of alleged hate crimes that she had reported & that a percentageof these had been investigated (though none prosecuted)

LangCleg · 10/09/2018 12:38

On rolling BBC News now. They're featuring Tara doing the "emotional" bit. No bird flipping, of course. Now Nic about the consultation and self-ID and its effect on eligibility for women's prisons.

Finally, an actual TV news item.

R0wantrees · 10/09/2018 12:43

Just a reminder of what Tara "fuck you" Hudson took into the women's estate with Tara.

I do wonder if the Victoria Derbyshire show do much research about the guests they interview.

Or are some things not allowed?

Tara Hudson's requirement that transwomen should have surgery presumably is limited to specific procedures?

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