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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Aimee Challenor Quits!

222 replies

JustfiedandAncient · 03/09/2018 21:01

About time too!

Aimee Challenor Quits!
OP posts:
ToeToToe · 04/09/2018 00:01

All you have to do is arrange to talk with women... Confused

"Women = bad."

thebewilderness · 04/09/2018 02:10

Will this end the threat of investigation?
I presume that is the purpose of the resignation.

Turph · 04/09/2018 03:06

The main conclusion we can draw from this about the greens is that even by the usually low standards of their collective gullibility, they have been remarkably gullible. At least when Labour are the victims of entryism it’s politically astute Trots; indeed, their success is precisely because they are more politically astute than your typical CLP. But Challoner pere et fils are transparently crazy and weird AF and more weirdness is emerging by the second. That the Greens were taken in by them, top to bottom, shows just how shallow the Green talent pool is.
This is very true.
Politics at the moment is dominated by idealistic and ideologues at the moment - of all political leanings. It is pragamatists and realists who are struggling to be heard and to reel in this inability to identify a problem, never mind solve it. This fight is impossible for pragamatists and realists to argue against. The shit has to hit reality first and for the idealism to fracture and fail apart. This process is not pretty. It requires individuals to shatter the emotional investiment and energy they have put into following an ideal. This idea is crucial to their identity, so fracturing the ideal, means questioning that identity.
This is also very true and could explain the polarised politics we see today (Trump is Saviour/Hitler, Brexit is heroic/racist, Corbyn is amazing/awful etc). People build their identities around their beliefs and when those beliefs are really challenged their bedrock crumbles and the whole house falls down. So they get tribal, they ignore facts, they get emotionally invested. There will be GP members going through a real crisis of confidence about this. It's a fucking mess.

thebewilderness · 04/09/2018 03:40

I think it more likely that Green Leadership was complicit rather than gullible and taken in.

BettyDuMonde · 04/09/2018 04:20

It can’t end the investigation (although I am sure that’s what Aimee is hoping for).

This now has to be an investigation into power structures within the party, how to adequately vet volunteers (because these roles aren’t filled by employees), how to ensure membership data is stored within the law and whether failures in the first three have led to expulsions of perfectly law abiding members, and how that can happen without due process.

Also, as we know paedophiles like networking, did Challoner snr have criminal contacts within the party (peers, or members he had groomed to keep his secrets).

Any recommendations made by the independent investigators at the conclusion should be implemented across all UK political parties.

It was the greens this time, but it could’ve been any of them.

SPOFS · 04/09/2018 05:07

The Greens are going to learn that if you try to please everyone, you'll end up pleasing no-one.

arranfan · 04/09/2018 05:20

It was the greens this time, but it could’ve been any of them.

Strongly agree with this. As with the remainder of your post tho' as Shahrar Ali is pushing for an expansion of the Terms of References because their scope is too limited, it's unclear what will be covered. Unless they report as they go and the scope broadens to accommodate.

I thought it notable that AC refers to Veritas [sic] being used as part of a Witchhunt (?). And AC specifically objects to Ali's call for the summary expulsion of members to be investigated.

EntropicTupperwareDrawer · 04/09/2018 07:20

WPUK is a far-right organisation?

Um - no. It has its roots firmly in socialist feminism and the trade union movement. It really does show up the lack of nuance in Aimee's worldview. Green=good. Bad=right-wing. Us and them. You're with me or you're part of the problem. And all that Caroline Lucas has to do to go from angel to demon is talk about talking to them??

Tell me again how this isn't all rooted in misogyny?

Ereshkigal · 04/09/2018 07:27

So immature.

DearSergio · 04/09/2018 07:35

What unnerved me most is the parallels with an abusive relationship, what ever you say isn't good enough, its never the " right " thing. I'm appalled at CL, I've always rated her as one of the rare as hens teeth politicians ( decent, honest, actually gives a sh*t) but she's thrown Woman under the bus for AC Sad and it's still not good enough for AC.

FlowerpotFairyHouse · 04/09/2018 07:35

They deadnamed Aimee in their reply?

That is interesting.

arranfan · 04/09/2018 07:37

They deadnamed Aimee in their reply?

No - it happened to someone else who complained to AC about it and AC sub-tweeted it, I think.

KaiserThiefs · 04/09/2018 07:58

Slightly OT but is anyone else getting an advert at the bottoms of this thread for Scouts? Seems a little tasteless

Poppyred85 · 04/09/2018 07:59

Has something happened with Aimee and nappy wearing? I read about DC wearing one while committing his horrific abuse but not on twitter to see about Aimee.

FlowerpotFairyHouse · 04/09/2018 08:06

No - it happened to someone else who complained to AC about it and AC sub-tweeted it, I think.

Ah...

ShrodingersSturdyPyjamas · 04/09/2018 08:07

Also, Lily 'I'm so poor I couldn't even afford my application for UCAS or for food and clothes, please send me all your money' Madigan, tweeted this week about how they were off on holiday to Hungary. How did Lily afford that all of a sudden?

And what name is on the passport? Was LM deadnamed at any point on the journey?

hackmum · 04/09/2018 08:12

DearSergio: "'I've always rated her as one of the rare as hens teeth politicians ( decent, honest, actually gives a sh*t) but she's thrown Woman under the bus for AC sad and it's still not good enough for AC."

I think it's hilarious. AC is too stupid to realise that putting Lucas on Terfblocker will not only alienate Lucas - and therefore, with any luck, encourage her to give A Woman's Place a more sympathetic hearing - but will alienate whole swathes of people who might otherwise have been willing to give AC the benefit of the doubt. Lucas is reasonably well liked and respected on the liberal left, so this may start to wake people up to what is really going on.

AC is going to be very isolated from now on - it looks like the Green Party had given them a sense of self-validation and a network of support otherwise lacking in their life. Given the state of their mental health, I'm not sure that this sudden isolation will be a good thing. But it's entirely self-inflicted.

arranfan · 04/09/2018 08:23

I have to say that I'm more and more impressed with Shahrar Ali who gives a very good response, tempered with compassion, to AC's critical comments about him: twitter.com/ShahrarAli/status/1036660231672086530

I can't begin to imagine the stress you must be under. However all of us in Party must be determined to submit ourselves to inquiry in order to restore confidence in our party structures esp regarding safeguarding. Defensiveness is not an option. Nothing to hide nothing to fear.

KeneftYakimoski · 04/09/2018 08:24

Given the state of their mental health, I'm not sure that this sudden isolation will be a good thing. But it's entirely self-inflicted.

If, as seems likely, AC is a mentally fragile abuse victim, then "self-inflicted" is something of a harsh judgement, no? Suicides and self-harm are by definition "self inflicted", but most people manage to be sympathetic to the reasons behind them and accept that they are very rarely a rational or willed response. If you strip away the reluctance that the woke have to regard certain people as displaying frank signs of deep emotional and mental trauma, AC clearly shows frank signs of deep emotional and mental trauma.

Yes, their behaviour has been utterly disgraceful, taken at face value. But you don't have to be a woke TRA to sympathise with the child of a paedophile who is quite likely to have been victim of or witness to abuse, who has been in and out of care and whose mother is quite clearly (at best) unable to provide much support, who at twenty is having what amounts to a breakdown in public that has probably been brewing for some time. A lot of people who could have helped - the Greens, in particular - instead willed on someone who they thought helped their "cause" without any concern for the person they were using.

To assume AC had complete agency in their behaviour seems a reach. We can condemn absolutely much of what they and their allies have been saying and doing without regarding their destruction - because that's what this saga amounts to - as self-inflicted. When the dust settles, AC will likely be seen as another of her father's victims.

ChiaraRimini · 04/09/2018 08:49

@RedToothBrush very astute.
A Green Party member commented here few days ago that the Party's structures had not kept up with growth in numbers, and were still based on a situation where most people knew each other.
UKIP also had problems with lack of screening of candidates due to inexperience and rapid growth but that problem has self-corrected.
Aimee clearly needs help and should never have been given this platform for Aimee's own sake let alone anyone else.

arranfan · 04/09/2018 08:53

Aimee clearly needs help and should never have been given this platform for Aimee's own sake let alone anyone else

It might be interesting to know more about the Stonewall training that AC received to facilitate the rapid ascent to power. Plus, where the fellow graduates of that programme are placed, and in which organisations.

NotBadConsidering · 04/09/2018 09:04

Shahrar Ali

This could explain how Shearer, Alan ended up on the terfblocker list.

LangCleg · 04/09/2018 09:05

Having some degree of sympathy for a person from a catastrophically abusive background does not mean that one should be any less adamant that such a person should be prevented from harming others or held to account for harm done to others.

A lot of this "don't be mean about Aimee" sounds suspiciously like appeals to female socialisation to me. I would prefer we concentrate on Aimee's political agenda, which - whether subject to outside abusive influence or not - advocated for the removal of women's rights and child protection and would cause immeasurable harm on a society-wide scale.

Knicknackpaddyflak · 04/09/2018 09:13

AC certainly is a victim. The issue is political parties using young people who to anyone with a grain of experience or common sense should have recognised as vulnerable in an attempt to signal 'wokeness' and through that, having given a platform to views and behaviours that cannot be acceptable.

Its interesting to finally see an establishment group have to reach the line of which they have to recognise there are some things they cannot go along with. Also interesting that the Greens will now be publically facing the 'transphobia' accusations, which is going to demonstrate to the establishment in general:

  • 'Transphobia' in TRA use now really does mean nothing more than failure to unconditionally and unquestioningly enable and approve, including failure to exempt from all standard boundaries, rules and expectations.

  • Regardless of what you do to support, how far you've helped, what you've done right, if you do one thing wrong you will be turned upon (Splitting in MH terms, you're either all good or all bad)

I wonder if this is why the NSPCC are so afraid to talk about their own policies, because they are well aware that any word they say may be leapt upon and interpreted as wrong, and the TRA lobby would launch against them. So many groups - MPs included - have been afraid to do anything to cause what the Green party are now going to have to deal with, but I hope once it's seen in public how baseless and lacking in logic or sense that the 'transphobia' accusations are, that it will free other groups to speak out with confidence.

Alicethroughtheblackmirror · 04/09/2018 09:22

Red good post (just catching up).

You're bang on - Brexit, Corbyn, trans etc are all based on ideology which crumbles at at any strike of reality. But they'll all back up and defend those collapsing edifices for as long as a single brick remains!