Green Party thread 3

[FermatsTheorem]

Previous thread here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3347925-Green-Party-statement-continuation-thread?pg=40

Will post links to AC's public statement and Caroline Lucas's appalling white wash job in a moment, but for me, Andrew Gilligan nails it yet again:
twitter.com/mragilligan/status/1034776005326581767

There's so much of it, in such high places, that I can honestly see it as a driver for social change, and that trans people are just being used to facilitate that.

Used being the operative word. Most of them probably have no idea they are the Trogon Horse. They are so worked up in self-righteous self-pity they haven't given even the tiniest consideration to the unintended, longer term consequences of them being deployed in the front line.

current relevent thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3355712-Aimee-Challenor-Stonewall

Jeez Turph. Those links are horrific and utterly chilling.

Why are so many, many extremely powerful men paedophiles?

We get into the realm of conspiracy theories there Datun..

Why are so many, many extremely powerful men paedophiles?

Because the rules don't apply to them. Or at least, not to the same extent. Barriers and risk are lowered with money and power. Business people (I use the term loosely) also pander to the pampered, and make more when they offer a jaded palate things not usually on the menu for the plebs.

So one can afford to indulge. And the invite to indulge is more likely to be presented.

There are lots of people who given lowered barrier/risk discover that if offered the opportunity to experiment, they sink faster into depravity than they might have previously presumed they would.

It's not just about the "forbidden fruit" aspect of sex with children I don't think.

It is also about feeling special. Beyond the normal rules due to their relative power when compared to ordinary people. And I guess for some, depending on where they live, even with lowered risks it's still high stakes. That will have its own attractions for some.

Lifelong peadophiles with a fixed sexual attraction certainly exist in significant numbers. But they aren't the only ones raping children.

If you are influential, powerful groups or secret services might make it very easy for you,too, to try the forbidden fruit. They get a blackmailable puppet, and you get your darkest wishes fulfilled. It might even boost your career, cause you are now really reliable.

deepwatersolo

Yes, I can immagine in the developed world that is a definite feature.

If you are influential, powerful groups or secret services might make it very easy for you,too, to try the forbidden fruit. They get a blackmailable puppet, and you get your darkest wishes fulfilled. It might even boost your career, cause you are now really reliable.
Yeah, basically that.

Why are so many, many extremely powerful men paedophiles?

Because they can be. Because there is no one to tell them they can't be.

We are getting into the Jimmy Savilles here. Men with power to indulge every sexual fantasy going without accountability.

The danger is you start sounding like David Icke over it. Except Saville was the one (and probably only) time David Icke was right. The irony being that rise of the power of conspiracy theorists and the fracturing in trust of institutions (and therefore safeguarding frameworks) which has led to the rise of the far left and far right owes a lot to conspiracy theories too. It's circular.

Worst still there are lots of rumours about the conduct of Trump that fall into the 'very dubious' box and aren't going away. Trump's former lawyer has pleaded guilty to paying off someone, and there are still a number of other potential cases lurking.

And yeah Brexit, the Panama papers, Grenfell, issues over outsourcing are suggesting the scale of general corruption in local and national politics in our country which we thought wasn't corrupt is on an unimaginable scale.

It's hard not to lose your mind over it all.

There is a sense with it all that the shit is close to hitting the fan. But none of this will pass peacefully and easily because of where emotions are stacked up in the public and how people are clinging to power.

The next 4 months seem likely to be a crunch point for so many huge issues all at the same time. This is just one, that's part of a huge interconnected mess.

""He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster. And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee."

The tormentor becomes the tormented. People become what they love and hate, because their mind focuses on it.

In fighting the darkness that existed in the status quo, populism it has unleashed forces and power elsewhere which are equally dark.

Hold onto your humanity.

The tormentor becomes the tormented. People become what they love and hate, because their mind focuses on it.

Well that's me fucked. I lost faith in humanity a long time ago and have been abyss gazing for most of my adult life. Not on purpose. But you can't unsee/unhear widespread, glossed over sexual abuse of children, nor the government of the day committing mass murder at the top of your road.

Now I am wondering what David Icke saw and heard that turned him into what he became. Because if maybe it was caused, at least in part, by abyss gazing rather than solely something organic, it must have been many many many magnitudes worse than anything I encountered. The contrast between who he was and who he became was startling at the time, and hasn't improved over the decades.

Maybe the increased retreat into flat earth, made up dinosaurs and other conspiracy theories isn't just because of the ease of access to that way of thinking due to the net and people basically enjoying feeling special, despite not being especially informed. Maybe ease of access to darker stuff on the net has also played a part. And people seek a safer place, where they get to employ the piled up heap of worry and fear in a fight against fantasy concerns. Because their real concerns are just too hard to contemplate and that fight looks unwinnable.

Personally I disappear in Toon Blast for hours to give my head/heart a break (thank you ADHD, cos sometimes distractability is a help rather than a hinderance) . But I can see where having been exposed to much worse, a human might hit a crunch point and need to focus on something utterly nonsensical to escape reality.

Reality sucks.

Why are powerful men so often paedophilic?

I guess historically they were groomed into it at their posh bordimg schools? One matron to try and keep an entire male staff away from hundreds of boys every night and cultural practices such as ‘fagging’ making the whole thing normal?

internet has probably been a great class-leveller, in paedo terms.

Radio 4 interview this morning with new deputy leader. Heard no mention of the recent crisis.

I heard that too GollyGosh. The entertainment reporter asked Jeff Goldblum more difficult questions around Me Too than Sian Berry got. Talk about the elephant in the room

I guess historically they were groomed into it at their posh bordimg schools?

Same sex, enforced closed culture might be key in the formative years and even in early adulthood when people are still very malleable. Public schools might indeed provide some explanation for a moulding of sexual attraction in countries where they have long been associated with the seat of power.

Elsewhere, It think may be similar patterns.

The issues in the Catholic church, with some here underlining the sub culture of the seminary, could be a comparable kind of thing. While I've never heard of a nun sexually abusing a child, I have come across many examples of non-sexual sadism and casual cruelty towards children, so they too may demonstrate a "similar but different" warping of the mind issue in the sub culture of their own enforced, same sex setting. Deprivation of normal sexual/relationship development and parenthood may also factor. The church was the state here for eons. Even now it remains, as always, a power player in national culture and politics.

It gets almost no attention, with Buddhism still being seen almost universally as "so much nicer than most religions" but there was, and I'd presume still is, a huge issue in Buddhist temple culture in Thailand. With the constant flow of very poor (thus even less powerful than typical children) "live in" baby monks being even more of an easy access issue than little choir members and alter boys.

My ex husband was a baby monk for a single day, with his mother hovering like a hawk, chucking high value baht left, right and centre to visibly flex muscles. Because despite the family's relative power and wealth, she trusted them around her tiny boy about as far as she could throw a tank. Monks and temples can rise to dizzy heights of social and quasi-political power in communities, regions and nationally. The tentacles of their influence are not to be under estimated. Which is why some people sign up for (seemingly) religious life long term.

The danger is you start sounding like David Icke over it.

The way to avoid that is to stick to pointing out which safeguarding protocols are being undermined and explaining why those protocols were introduced. Abusers flock to areas where scrutiny is weakest.

internet has probably been a great class-leveller, in paedo terms.

Yes. But those at the top of the pile of power and money tend to be older. Which is why perhaps historical reasons might feature more at the moment. In the future we might be looking at a boom of peadophiles up at the top. Because the routes of exposure and moulding have expanding so rapidly, over a far greater socio-economic range, So it is worth a long hard look at the younger set, (who will one day take the place of the current crop) currently lower down the ranks of power and control.

Because they are both our future and our present. They are the foot soldiers currently working on softening up social perception with regards to NewSpeak Truth, protections, consent, attempting to change legalisation and laying the foundations for when they seize the reins.

A journalist who is interviewing Bartley and Berry later today is asking for questions for them on twitter twitter.com/ChaplainChloe/status/1037238001833857025?s=19. I can think of plenty.

Someone needs to ask Berry why she deleted all her Aimee Challenor retweets in a panic at the weekend, including some perfectly inoffensive ones.

Lifelong peadophiles with a fixed sexual attraction certainly exist in significant numbers. But they aren't the only ones raping children.

My question was really about how paedophilia develops in a person. Because it feels so alien. It hadn't occurred to me that it was anything other than deeply motivated.

But, as many women here have noted, men will stick their dicks anywhere. There doesn't appear to have to be a deep-seated reason.

And a 'jaded palette' scenario makes perfect sense.

Another reason why mumsnet is targeted so often. The sharing of information is invaluable. And unprecedented on this scale.

Crikey - I just remembered, we had a monk sheltering from abuse at our London house share in the 90s.

He’d been sent to work (modern day slavery, essentially) at a London Kung fu school, where my friend, Liverpudlian but of Chinese heritage, was training.

She recognised he was in an abusive situation and brought him home. He stayed with us for a couple of weeks while his family made long distance arrangements for him.
He spoke hardly any English but I gave him a taste for Mr Kipling’s fondant fancies.

Women really are gatekeepers, aren’t we?
No wonder paraphillic men hate us so much.

Women talking is the oldest (and most effective) safeguarding tool of all.

Notmynom

Is the publication one that tends to be quite heavy hitting, or mostly puff pieces ? I'm not sure the Greens Brave New Leaders will be too keen on any heavy hitters talking to them at the moment.

Honestly, I think short of CL walking away from the party and taking their one seat with her (which I don't think she'll do at this stage) meaning they'd be forced into the media spotlight, they'll try and go under the scrutiny radar as much as possible.

An innocuous and uncontroversial interview by Nick Robinson of Sian Berry. Not a whiff, not a mention - just the type of questions that she will have fielded at every local and general election.

Abuse flourishs where power is unquestionable.
Unquestionable power is a failure of safeguarding protocols.
We have safeguarding protocols to prevent unquestionable power.
Removing safeguarding protocols only leads to unquestionable power.

This is the problem in a nutshell.
Its also exactly the mirror of the Green Party's current scandal.

Yet, a total lack of questioning from the media...