Green Party statement continuation thread

[Destinysdaughter]

Thread was filling up so I've started this for further discussions

Previous thread

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3346448-Green-Party-statement

Latham

www.thesun.co.uk/news/1769797/transgender-female-prisoner-hanged-herself-at-all-male-prison-after-being-told-of-delay-in-receiving-make-up-brushes/

Thompson

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/19/jury-returns-verdict-on-transgender-woman-found-dead-in-male-prison

Swift

www.theguardian.com/society/2017/dec/18/transgender-inmate-complained-of-bullying-by-guards-inquest-told

There may be more, I'll go and see, also will look for any inmate on inmate murders, or accusations of unlawful killing by guards.

You need to also look at the rates for the overall population - by crime, age, mental health, etc to get a picture.

There was a hunger strike this year, but so far not turning up anything pointing to a demise as a result of that.

www.newstatesman.com/politics/feminism/2018/01/marie-dean-story-shows-there-s-no-simple-answer-how-we-treat-transgender

You need to also look at the rates for the overall population - by crime, age, mental health, etc to get a picture.

Agree.

It is entirely unrealistic to expect a zero suicide/murder rate for transpeople in prison. Because sucides and murders happen in prison. So some are to be expected.

Until the numbers are crunched for both trans and non trans sucides (and murders if any body knows of any) it cannot be known if transpeople are at a particularly elevated risk in prison compared to the rest of the prison population.

And even then more analysis would be needed to establish that the sucide/murder was caused by being trans in prison, rather than transpeople in prison possibly tending to have a higher than average number of severe MH issues that left them individually at a very elevated risk of inmate conflict or sucidal impulses.

There's some number crunching here

fairplayforwomen.com/prison-suicide/

worth a read.

It is a widely held, but unsubstantiated, belief that holding a transgender prisoner in a prison that does not align to their gender identity is a recipe for guaranteed suicide. However this risks engendering such fear in transwomen facing prison that their mental health will suffer before a decision is even made. If everywhere they turn are assertions that it is expected that they will attempt to kill themselves if imprisoned with others of their birth sex there is a very real danger that it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

From the fair play link.

This is exactly what I meant when I talked about the dangers of grooming people to think of themselves as at constant peril of suicide. Those who already struggle with intrusive thoughts and impulses are pretty much fucked in an environment that tells them again and again and again that suicide goes hand in hand with who they are. It will turn up the volume on thoughts, urges and impulses. It can be hard enough to turn the volume down when you are supported, or at least left alone to get on with it. Turn the volume up, attempts will go up. Some will be successful.

Thank you for finding those, Cesira. Quite right about looking at rates on suicide in prisons generally. I'm sure cuts to prison staff has a significant effect on suicide rates.

One would have expected a serious political party to have looked into underlying suicide rates and causes before making calls for changes in policy.

Jess Bradley's not a big fan of prisons either

www.nusconnect.org.uk/articles/six-things-you-can-do-to-show-solidarity-with-trans-prisoners

I seem to recall the phrase 'restorative justice' being used before.

I woke up realising something and then came to my computer to find that the talk had moved on to trans suicide. I don't want anyone to die - and I am not in a competition. However,
I came here to say that I've just been sent yet another letter from my doctor asking why I haven't been for my smear test and something suddenly became clear.
I don't want to go because I have been abused by a male doctor in the past. Every time I think I should make an appointment I get kind of flash in my head about the woman who was faced with having the test done by a transwoman and I freeze. I phoned my doctor and the best that she could say is that there are currently no transwomen at the practice. My irrational mind tells me that there could be a temporary nurse on the day I go in.
As a member of the Green Party I told them of my fears a long while ago. I was told to contact the relevant authorities.
I went on to write to Caroline Lucas, who dismissed my concerns. I also provided proof about Amy's connection with TerfBlocker and the silencing of women- which she ignored.
I am going to make an appointment for my smear today, however there will be other women out there who feel like me - or even worse- who will avoid medical care because they don't want to be treated by a male bodied person.
I really don't think that it is an exaggeration to say that women will die because of these fears.
As an ex member of the Greens - to say that I am getting any pleasure out of the fall of the Challoners is very far from the truth. I am extremely upset at what this has done to my old party. I think they've destroyed it, just when we need it most.

This annoys me.

There are many many people in prison with additional needs such as mh issues, adhd, sp and lang issues or asd. All also at risk of suicide.

Someone on Twitter isclaimingthat gender critical feminists on this board have been naming Challenor's victim. I'm pretty sure that isn't true.

It was BeautifulArielM on Twitter who made that claim. If Ariel told me the sky was blue I would go outside to check.

Has anyone ever heard Lily Madigan talking about women's issues?

Funnily enough LM has been going on about period poverty the last day or so, first time I have ever seen tweets re women's issues.

Whenever anything like this happens LM has a little flurry of pretending to care about women. Then LM goes back to talking about LM.

Ah this BeautifulArielM?

MsMcWoodle: Hope your smear test goes well. I know it's scary if you've been abused in the past - you're not alone. (I sometimes think the next big sex abuse scandal to come to light will be abuse by health professionals, but that's another thread.)

Re: someone claiming that people on this board have been naming Challenor's victim, that's simply another case of reversing victim and offender. TRAs on Twitter named her, and people on this board reported the screenshots to the police. TRAs have absolutely no compunction about lying - the more bare-faced the lie, the better as far as they're concerned.

BraveAndStunning

Yep. Ariel has changed their Twitter handle and profile pic but it's the same Twitter @ account.

I could be wrong but I thought beautifulariel was actually saying Mumsnet had named the victim (not the actual victim of the case) but poor Aimee who she sees as the victim here.

Braveandstunning I read that as a threat. Useful if MN HQ could comment.

As I remember the ArielM was such a vile and disgusting MRA/TRA, that some actual TRAs thought that he was a spoof created by terfs to make them look bad.

seahorsesaewhorses

In that case somebody needs to loosen the flowery headband. Let the old grey matter breathe again. The increased oxygen supply should reduce the degree of stupid.

I am sympathetic. But. Their needs and safety do NOT trump the needs and safety of women. Other ways to help them should be found. Because one person with evil intent slipping through the net is one too many and they HAVE slipped through. An unbreakable line of no prisonerswith a penis in a women's jail is needed. The trans problem is a separate one that does need addressing. But again. NOT at the expense of women

Oh that is definitely a threat to doxx

@MNHQ could you comment on this threat please? I'd like to know my information is safe.

Ariel says these things all the time about Mumsnet.

How MN will be getting its comeuppance soon. How Ariel can never say anything specific but it will be soon or very soon. Said exactly the same over the Emma mod business months ago.

Nobody takes any notice.

'Ariel' made that threat months ago.