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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Green Party statement continuation thread

999 replies

Destinysdaughter · 27/08/2018 11:12

Thread was filling up so I've started this for further discussions

Previous thread

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3346448-Green-Party-statement

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38
CesiraAndEnrico · 28/08/2018 09:34

As I remember the ArielM was such a vile and disgusting MRA/TRA, that some actual TRAs thought that he was a spoof created by terfs to make them look bad.

Have they never heard of Poe's Law ?

seahorsesaewhorses · 28/08/2018 09:35

I've seen messages on twitter that even tra's don't think Ariel is real as she comes out with wonder statements

Sarahconnor1 · 28/08/2018 09:38

As I remember the ArielM was such a vile and disgusting MRA/TRA, that some actual TRAs thought that he was a spoof created by terfs to make them look bad

Yep.

Green Party statement continuation thread
CesiraAndEnrico · 28/08/2018 09:39

Sarahconnor1

Grin
Ucantarguewistupid · 28/08/2018 09:40

But back on track..... Will there be any investigation into Aimees conduct and lack of judgement using the dads services to aid their campaign

BraveAndStunning · 28/08/2018 09:42

It's an old tweet - around the time that mumsnet grass account was on the go I think.

To put the mindset of beautiful Ariel in context, this is what Ariel tweeted when Magdalen Berns was assualted in Edinburgh. Ariel sure has all that female socialisation going on there

Green Party statement continuation thread
RedToothBrush · 28/08/2018 09:47

Yep, I think Aimee will turn out to be the first domino that knocks down all the others.

The problem with politics is if you give someone who isn't very good at politics, isn't very talented, has traded off their identity alone and they aren't independently wealthy themselves - is they run a high risk of eventually getting found out. Because of the very nature of politics.

Politics is dirty. If you have a weakness, opposition forces will chip away at it. At some point if you are something of a liability, if you've outlived your usefulness you'll get dropped like a hot potato without any thought. If you don't make the minimum level of political expectations you are dispensable. Politics are unforgiving, merciless and cruel.

It not just trans politicians. Jared O'Mara was a fine example of the same thing. You actually have to be able to do more than argue about your own niche specialised subject. You have to connect with other people outside your bubble. You have to generally have fairly broad appeal and a degree of general knowledge (or be at least be able to bluff your way through a subject convincingly or deflect the subject and make it difficult for a journalist).

The problem with a lot of the trans activists in politics is they are particularly one dimensional. More so than even most of the mediocre crop of wannabes that currently are roaming around town halls and Westminster atm.

They can argue extensively on their own subject, but step out of their comfort zone even a touch and they are utterly lost. They only like to listen / converse with those in their bubble, so not only are they initially lacking in skills to talk to a wider population but they also are preventing themselves from learning the skill that other aspiring politicians are.

As soon as you remove them from their little gangs, and get them one on one they quickly run into issues. They rely far too heavily reliant on a group mentality and their safe spaces for their confidence. Its a major weakness. A lack of social grace also doesn't help.

Given the naivety and the uncritical blinkers that we've all witnessed, I also have my worries about whether some might be deliberately set up by nefarious far right forces with large amounts of money too. Someone of twitter giving you a loan for your education? I hope your given some thought as to who that was, and how they now own you. They should watch more political dramas or spy movies.

There are some really foul politicians out there, who know little of the world and lack talent. But they do share one skill: the ability to spout hot air and bullshit on ANY given subject with an air of confidence all by themselves. Many are able to ooze a certain charm or charisma when they need to - both publicly and socially. Whether you like this as a feature of politics, its true. I note that one of Theresa May's great weaknesses, is she isn't terribly good at 'smoozing'.

Its notable thats not true of a lot of notable trans activists. Get them off the script and they crumple in a heap. Talk about something off topic, and time how long it takes them to try and revert the subject back to trans issues, even if thats through trying to provoke outrage. Outside their immediate circle just how deep does friendship run when it comes to the crunch?

Funnily enough, there was an article about how to handle the far right in politics, with an example of how one German media outlet handled it (I think it was a tv station)'

What they did was conduct an interview with a leading Afd members, and then didn't ask then once about immigration. It was an utter car crash. It exposed just how weak they were in a way that previously hadn't been quite so stark. The crapness of UKIP local councillors has also shown up, once they have been elected for much the same reason.

Political parties who have invested a lot in these individuals are crazy for all these reasons. They are a total gift to the far right, because they haven't been properly vetted, coached and they are particularly vulnerable to really poor judgements - if only if this is down to their ages. Totally and utterly out of their depth.

Its really unpleasant to witness tbh.

Needmoresleep · 28/08/2018 10:01

Sorry. Did not look at the date. As you were.

That said there seems an inbalance. A reasonable request to consider the implications of self-id seems to be widely considered 'hate'. Yet nasty threats apparently not. This bullying approach, unacceptable to Joe Public, along with the ramifications of the AC/DC (got to be a great meme there somewhere) affair will do some real damage to the TRA agenda.

PositivelyPERF · 28/08/2018 10:07

What they did was conduct an interview with a leading Afd members, and then didn't ask then once about immigration. It was an utter car crash. It exposed just how weak they were in a way that previously hadn't been quite so stark. The crapness of UKIP local councillors has also shown up, once they have been elected for much the same reason.

How absolutely fantastic. Such a simple approach, but shows them up for the single line thinkers, that they were/are. I would LOVE LM and others like LM to be interviewed on real topics, with no questions on TRA rights. I would actually exclude questions that are specific to women’s issues, because that opens the door for ‘but trans women suffer more’ bullshite that gets spewed. Poverty, crime, transport, etc. Though, of course, Trans ‘folk’ 🙄 will be poorer, suffer more crime and miss more buses (hard to run in those oversized high heels 👠)

SingeBuggerCack · 28/08/2018 10:09

Excellent post, Red, and I feel a bit guilty for highlighting just one bit of it, but:

They can argue extensively on their own subject

Can they? Really? Because isn’t that sort of the point of the threats and the purges and the blocking of even politely dissenting voices: it’s all so that they can avoid having to argue the point because they know that on a level playing surface it will become excruciatingly clear that their arguments just don’t hold up.

Charliethefeminist · 28/08/2018 10:09

Great Post Red.

Ekphrasis · 28/08/2018 10:12

Sorry, didn't see date either.

CesiraAndEnrico · 28/08/2018 10:17

What they did was conduct an interview with a leading Afd members, and then didn't ask then once about immigration. It was an utter car crash. It exposed just how weak they were in a way that previously hadn't been quite so stark. The crapness of UKIP local councillors has also shown up, once they have been elected for much the same reason.

I've never seen it, but wasn't that how the BNP got torpedoed. Nick Griffin went on QT (?) and ... basically collapsed his own party in one fell swoop ?

RedToothBrush · 28/08/2018 10:22

They can argue extensively on their own subject

Argue might be the wrong. Talk at length on their own terms, is better phrase.

MnerXX · 28/08/2018 10:31

A previous poster mentioned that to stand for the labour party, they had to answer questions re finances etc in order to try to prevent anything like this. I know the thread has moved on but I thought it important to mention that as an ex Green candidate in the local elections, I was never asked any such questions.

In my constituency, it was all about getting a candidate for every seat. No checks were done (I was asked to recruit another candidate and no mention was made of checking anything other than they were happy to stand). I was on the local committee for two years but was always fighting off the presumption that I wanted to stand for election. I made it very clear throughout that I didn't but was eventually cajoled into standing in the last elections and is why I have stepped down from the committee. I do not want to find myself in that position again.

CesiraAndEnrico · 28/08/2018 10:38

In my constituency, it was all about getting a candidate for every seat. No checks were done (I was asked to recruit another candidate and no mention was made of checking anything other than they were happy to stand).

Sounds more similar to the recruitment policy of MLM than a political party.

HotRocker · 28/08/2018 10:43

Has the DM article been taken down? It’s not showing up on a Google search and I can’t find it on their website.

MnerXX · 28/08/2018 10:49

Cesira exactly. These things really need to be looked at if the Greens are ever going tor recover.

There are some really good local candidates in our area and I would hate to do them a disservice. They are very passionate, knowledgeable and full of ideas but it should be about focusing on the excellent local candidates we have and finding/supported new ones rather than just bums on seats.

Obviously even these ones could do with listening better to those around them. Excluding the self-ID stuff, I would have happily stayed doing admin for a good while but I shouldn't be continually be fighting my corner over whether or not I want to stand. Some of the reasons are very personal to me - which made it harder for me to say no because I didn't want to go into it and I didn't want to go into every time an election came round.

placemats · 28/08/2018 10:49

The Greens do better in countries where there is a form of Proportional Representation and are well served in the European Parliament, including some from the UK though that gravy train is now stopping for UK MEPs (one piece of good thing to come out of Brexit).

This is how the Green Party stand in Northern Ireland for eg (Northern Ireland has proportional representation)

www.greenpartyni.org/ourpeople/

TwistedStitch · 28/08/2018 10:50

No it's still there. I just searched 'Aimee Challenor Daily Mail' and it was the first item on Google.

I've just spent some time reading that Ariel's twitter feed, surely a spoof?

HotRocker · 28/08/2018 10:56

Oh right, thanks. I searched in the father’s name so maybe that’s why it didn’t come up?
My apologies

CesiraAndEnrico · 28/08/2018 11:07

Aimee is back on twitter

twitter.com/greenpartyaimee/status/1034376272888119301?s=21

And tweeting to Julie Bindel

CaitlynsCat · 28/08/2018 11:11

Hmm perhaps not read Julie's latest:

mobile.twitter.com/bindelj/status/1034365532957560832

BarrackerBarmer · 28/08/2018 11:11

I thought you all might like to know that MNHQ have reviewed my deleted posts on thread 1 and reinstated them.
This was not at my request. I'm grateful for the decision, not because the posts held any value, but because this indicates that in the matter of whether we should be allowed to condemn political figures who stand by paedophiles, MNHQ are committed to preserving that critical democratic right.

Thanks MNHQ

Popchyk · 28/08/2018 11:12

Christ.

Really bad idea to get back on Twitter.

This is going to be a car crash.

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