Goat dies after violent attack by men **Title edited by MNHQ - distressing article in OP post**

[IDontEatFriedTurtle]

www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/pregnant-goat-dies-after-being-12998644

Fucking horrific. And thank you to the Metro for publishing this act of sexual assault and animal cruelty under the "weird sex" section.

Honestly, what the fuck is wrong with men. How do 8 men find each other that would willing rape a pregnant goat to death? If there aren't loads of disgusting men out there how do gang rapes happen? coincidence that ab inch of disgusting bastards were together?

One thing I remember that really opened my eyes was at university hearing a group of about twelve men I’d considered fairly decent discuss what would happen in a world with no repercussions. It started as ‘would you go looting?’ Sort of joky stuff and deteriorated from there. Every man but one ended up saying that if they could get away with it in a world with no consequences they’d rape.

It shook me deeply. I’ll never forget it. If I could go back I’d quiz the one who said they wouldn’t more closely. And tell the rest what I thought of them.

I love belonging to a free and democratic society where equality before the law and justice are upheld. It isn't perfect but it's pretty good in comparison to many. A shame a few of the posters on here do not hold the same views

I don't accept any of that. It's you that is spouting nonsense.

😉If you say so.

Bowl I can well believe that. Far too many men enjoy the power they have over women. And the ones who don't, do little or in most cases, NOTHING to make it better for women.

You are all spectacularly naive.

Shall we all agree to ignore the goady men with their manly views?

Bowelofbabelfish :( my only shock is that they let you hear it.

The very idea of a class of people taking collective responsibility for crimes they have not committed is abhorrent to the vast majority of people - whether they are members of that class or not.

That's a contradiction. Their class has committed those crimes.

And collective responsibility doesn't mean 'be punished as a group' it is acknowledging this and owning this as crimes belonging to the male class. Acknowledging the impact of this. Making adjustments for this. Not indulging in false equivalence, namalt, wam, etc.

(Some) women and children will be scared of men because of it - irrespective of whether they have perpetrated a crime or not.

I am reminded of the actual op at this point and realise we're going off topic.

So with the goat thing. I don't expect individual men to feel wretched about it because they share the same sex, but some sort of examination/discussion of masculinity and the conditions that lead (only?) men to do these disgusting, twisted sexual things would be good. I haven't read the linked article because I don't want it to follow me around.

So yes...men bloody well SHOULD stand up and do something about it!

Totally!

bowl that is grim, but not unfamiliar. I remember as a teen a group of male friends had in jokes prior to me hanging out with them and one of them was mocked for being oversexed and all his escapades of pouncing on young women friends. One of their 'hilarious' anecdotes was that he had once suggested "why don't we all rape Sally?*". They declined his suggestion but it was a source of mirth rather than concern. I asked whether they thought he'd been serious and they thought he was but it wouldn't happen because no one else was up for it. At the time I had trouble believing he meant it and couldnt square it with their blithe minimisation, but that situation has been formative for me.

*not her real name.

Aww cute.

It's a bit silly to play cheerleader to the achievements of men while completely ignoring that they were the only that could!!
For centuries women couldn't work,get an education,vote,own property,or even say no to their husband. And even so,some still managed to break the mould,make inventions,help others,fight for others despite being threatened,laughed at,their achievements stolen,ignored and derided.

If men are so enlightened why did it take until the 90's to make marital rape illegal?

I don't understand. What would you have "men" do that they don't already do ? And saying something like "stop raping" is not a constructive answer. If saying "stop xxx" was sufficient to persuade men from a particular course of action then the world would be quite different I'm sure.

Someone said "men" could stop all crime tomorrow if they wanted to ?

So I ask again - what are any of you doing to stop bad men being bad ? Why should other men, many of whom do more to stop the bad men being bad than any woman ever has, will or can, take more responsibility for it than you ? Your logic seems to be "because they have a penis".

TheCountryGirl

You didn't answer the question - clearly YOU are prepared to hold "men" collectively accountable for the bad things other men do, are you therefore prepared to hold them collectively responsible for the good things other men do ?

So yes...men bloody well SHOULD stand up and do something about it!

Other men already do more than women do to control violent and dangerous men.

And tbh the undercurrent from some posts seem to be "Men know best what's good for you and your safety. Men protect you. You wouldn't want to go without that would you? Don't upset the apple cart."

Which feels very very off.

Why has the title of this thread had the word "rape" taken out by HQ ?

How does it help to erase the sexual violence that men do because it offends the eyes of a few posters

I am fucking disgusted by that

Rebel

Well suppose that men decided that collectively they would not punish men who committed a crime against women. According to TheCountryGirl men do fuck all anyway. You can't on the one hand claim that civilisation (created by men btw) creates a veneer over society that keeps us safe compared to the alternative and simultaneously state that men do fuck all to protect women.

@stevejobsspectacles stop watching porn.
Stop using prostitutes and strip clubs.
Stop promoting laddish culture and behaviour.
Stop laughing at,sharing and ignoring sexist and rape jokes.
Stop putting someone's talent of kicking a ball for example above any wrongdoing they do.
Stop shouting and harassing women and girls on the street or ignoring it when they witness it.
Stop ignoring sexism and actively challenge it.
Stop moaning when a woman expresses in any way she doesn't feel safe.
Stop promoting "toxic masculinity ".

Oh I could go on...
These are just simple things that would go a long way.

And since men need to take collective responsibility and this case was in another jurisdiction - how do you propose that white british men "take responsibility" for the actions of men in another country ?

civilisation (created by men btw)

Okay. You have outed yourself as an ignorant, sexist, card-carrying misogynist with this (crap in parentheses).

Why are you here?

This is a feminism board on a site called mumsnet.

Needy, desperate, attention-seeking men who try to worm their unwelcome selves into women's awareness can look elsewhere.

Steve, what on earth are you talking about? It is MEN who try to claim credit for other men's achievements yet wash their hands of any responsibility when their sex causes destruction.

It is only individual men who achieve great things - men as a class are selfish, entitled, aggressive and I certainly do hold them all responsible.

What GREAT things do men as a class do? Enlighten me.

This world would be NOTHING without women. Those clothes you wear? Made by women. There fruit you eat? Women. The coffee you drink? Women. And every single person alive today? Women.

Hang on TheCountryGirl you're not serious ? Was the union pacific conceived planned and built by women ? This is a double standard, an individual man who acts violently represents all men, but yet an individual man who discovers or creates something deemed important is not ?

If you look at men as a class and women as a class - who built the modern world and everything in it ? Should we go around saying this ? If not why not ?

WhereDoWeBeginToCovetClarice

Look around you. What did women as a class create ? If it is not sexist to point out that the fact that men are much more dangerous and violent than women, which I accept, why is not acceptable to point out this ?

It is MEN who try to claim credit for other men's achievements yet wash their hands of any responsibility when their sex causes destruction.

They don't wash their hands, as pointed out they created civilisation and laws and justice systems to deal with it - it is a work in progress.

@stevejobsspectacles there is plenty if abuse,murder,rape,domestic violence committed by men as a class in the UK that MEN (regardless of race or nationality you twat!!) can take responsibility for.

If women's histories weren't actively suppressed by the 'victors' ie men, then we would all marvel at how many achievements women have succeeded under most aversive circumstances, and how little men have achieved when all the wifework and so much more has been done for them.

Oh and I'm still waiting for an answer as to why it took until the 90' for marital rape to become illegal.

Make it stop. Make it stop. Make it stop.

I'm with AnyFucker on this one - MN should not have expunged the word "rape" from the title. Male violence doesn't go away just because we don't use the words lest we offend someone's delicate sensibilities. That makes about as much sense as thinking "bad things won't happen if I don't step on the cracks in the pavement."