This never happens: male offenders in female prisons

[NotTerfNorCis]

www.thesun.co.uk/news/6804433/transgender-lag-sexually-abused-four-female-prisoners-days-after-arriving-at-west-yorkshire-jail/

A TRANSGENDER prisoner has been accused of sexually assaulting four female inmates after being sent to a women’s prison.

The first of the alleged attacks took place within days of her arriving at New Hall jail, Wakefield, West Yorkshire.

The inmate was sent there despite not having had gender reassignment surgery.

It is claimed she was visibly aroused when she allegedly assaulted the first inmate.

She was originally sent on remand to New Hall women’s prison after a judge heard how she had been living as a female for more than two years.

The alleged attacks will reignite the debate over whether transgender prisoners should be sent to women’s jails before they have had surgery.

It is claimed the first attack ­happened within days of the transgender prisoner’s arrival at high-security New Hall, Wakefield, West Yorks.

The alleged victim — an inmate with whom she had struck up a friendship — said the remand prisoner stood close to her and touched her arm while her erect penis was sticking out from the top of her trousers.

It is alleged she subsequently made inappropriate comments about oral sex to another prisoner before giving her a bear hug.

A third alleged victim says she was also attacked.

And a fourth woman prisoner claims she was kissed on the neck.

The transgender prisoner has now been sent to a Category B men’s jail.

The latest figures show there were 125 transgender prisoners in England and Wales at the end of March 2017, up from 70 a year earlier.

At the moment transgender women can only legally change their gender on their birth certificate if they have been medically diagnosed with gender dysphoria and have lived as a woman for two years.

This is the rule often used by judges when they are deciding whether to send transgender prisoners to a male or female prison.

Under current rules transgender inmates are able to dictate how they are both searched and addressed by prison officers.

They can also benefit from greater freedom in how they dress and can shower and wash clothes in private.

Prison authorities have been forced to issue new regulations following a rapid rise in the number of transgender inmates and concern about their treatment.

Transgender prisoners first won the right to have gender surgery in 1999.

Lifer and convicted kidnapper John Pilley, now 64, and five other prisoners launched legal action to have surgery on the NHS.

Last year The Sun told how a ­double rapist who had £10,000 NHS gender surgery in prison was moved to a women’s jail.

Jessica Winfield, born Martin Ponting, attacked two girls but is now in HMP Bronzefield, Surrey.

Pink news makes thems elves look like a bunch of nutters saying having a Penis isn't related to sex crime.

The pink news article needs archiving as prime evidence for when the tide turns

No males should be in women's prisons (other than the visitor's area). Not even male guards.

Most of the women in prison are in for non-violent crimes (the opposite in men's prisons), most women are in for sentences less than six months, and many have a history of being abused.

There are enough male 'trans' in the system to accommodate them in separate trans wings within the male estates. NOT put them, any of them, into women's prisons.

It is a violation of female prisoners' human rights.

You did make me laugh, HotRocker (in a lolsob way)

Transwomen are women the way that seahorses are horses.

The pink news article needs archiving as prime evidence for when the tide turns

Yes. But the thing Prick News don't realise, is when the tide turns against the T, the rest of the alphabet will go down with them. Likely being a wind-back of rights. Not just women/lesbians at risk here. Gay dudes/transsexuals as well.

They need to see the writing on the wall.

She was originally sent on remand to New Hall women’s prison after a judge heard how she had been living as a female for more than two years.

How is the judge making this decision? Based on what? Submissions in the adversarial system? This is fucking ludicrous.

Here is the link for Archive.is archive.is/

Copy and paste the URL into the blue box and check to see if its already been archived.

current threads:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3309831-To-feel-sickened-that-this-man-is-being-referred-to-in-this-way-WARNING-UPSETTING-CONTENT

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3309903-Sexual-assaults-on-Vulnerable-Women-Prisoners

See thread April 2018 discussing Welsh Affairs Committe questioning of Andrea Albutt (president of the Prison Governors Association)
OP RosenbergW writes:

"I saw this shared on twitter earlier. What struck me (especially given ongoing discussion here) was how difficult it was for the two speakers to find language to talk about the issue. They have to hedge around and check themselves repeatedly lest someone take offence. It simply is not possible to talk respectfully but openly about anything to do with the impact of trans self ID on women. The fear of drawing down abuse and retribution is so massive our MPs and even hardened journalists don't want to touch the subject, let alone give it proper analysis and reflection. This indicates to me that trans politics is the greatest current threat to women's rights, opportunities and lives.

Please watch this short video. If we think that women out here are fearful of trans males but unable to speak about it, how much worse must it be for women in prison?"

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3225546-Self-ID-and-womens-prisons

Gosh, that video is so revealing. The MP manages to steer his way to a form of words to ask his question but the woman really struggles to say what she thinks in a way that doesn't offend the current orthodoxy. She knows what she thinks about the risks, that's clear as day, but is scared to put this into words.

That is well worth watching.

"Andrea Albutt, president of the Prison Governors Association, who has managed men’s and women’s jails, said: ‘I have seen women feeling very threatened by transgender prisoners’ presence.

‘Women prisoners are very vulnerable. A lot have abusive men in their lives, who are part of the reason they have ended up in prison.

'To put all men who declare they are women into women’s prisons would be very damaging.

‘You do get trans prisoners who are going through the [transition] process who still look very masculine – they look like men with long hair and make-up.

'They don’t look feminine, and if they are 6ft 2in they are very scary. At the same time, they could be objects of ridicule to women.

'And if you are living as a woman before the change, walking around a landing in a men’s prison in a dress and make-up, that will be difficult."

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5798945/Trans-women-convicted-men-attack-vulnerable-inmates.html

I think the idea of chopping off the dick of child rapists is quite a good idea, hopefully it will catch on.... Misses point of thread completely....

Yeh, offer the fuckers a quick chop if they claim to be a woman.

The other point is that (I think?) there are babies in women's prisons? If women are incarcerated while pg then they have the baby inside and are allowed to keep it to BF if they wish and maybe generally until ?age

Putting sex offenders with cocks in there feels horrifying.
Just having read that other piece about the transwoman convicted of raping a 3 mo baby.
Men with dodgy aims can get acces to v vulnerable women and potentially very young children as well?

"Pregnancy and childcare in prison
Women who give birth in prison can keep their baby for the first 18 months in a mother and baby unit.

A prisoner with a child under 18 months old can apply to bring their child to prison with them."

Mother and baby unit... Mother of an under 18mo can apply to bring child with them...

Could you have a situation - theoretical - where a TW with an under 18mo child can reside in a mother and baby unit?

Seems pretty unlikely BUT we know the authorities work in mysterous ways sometimes. Thinking about that woman who was sent to prison for falsely retracting a rape report, and her kids were given to the man she had accused (her partner) and that by definition the authorities believed was a rapist, to look after.

Are the mother and baby units completely separate from the rest I wonder?

What happens when women in prison start getting pregnant either through consensual sex with TW who are placed there, or non consensual? When you mix up working penises and working ovaries etc in a boring environment with no escape, pregnancy is going to occur.

That pesky outdated biology again :(

That Pink News article is laughable. ‘This rapist’s penis is ENTIRELY irrelevant to the acts of rape they have committed!! How dare you suggest otherwise?!?’

Even if we decide that ‘Jessica Winfield’ really is a genuine person who truly has gender dysphoria, we still have to have regard for the safety of the women in the prison they are sent to. Pink News prioritizes the self conception of a rapist over the safety of a whole population of women in a prison.

No males should be in women's prisons (other than the visitor's area). Not even male guards.

YY - no male bodies in women's prisons at all - they should be single-sex segregated under the Equalities Act- I wonder why they're not?

press release Fairplay for Women:

'Sex attacks: MPs must investigate risks of transgender prisoners'

"MPs on the Commons Justice Committee must investigate the management of transgender prisoners in female prisons after the latest report that a male-born inmate has been accused of sexually assaulting four vulnerable women behind bars, a women’s rights group has said.

The call was made by Fair Play For Women, which has repeatedly revealed disturbing evidence of the dangers posed by some transgender prisoners in the female prison system.

FPFW’s comments follow a report in the Sun saying that “The inmate was sent to a women’s prison despite not having had gender reassignment surgery”. “The first of the alleged attacks took place within days of her arriving at New Hall jail”.

The report is just the latest example of the risks raised by allowing criminals with male bodies to be housed in female prisons with vulnerable women.

FPFW earlier last year revealed that up to half of male-born trans prisoners are likely to be sex offenders or violent criminals.

The group has urged the Justice Select Committee to hold a special hearing on transgender prisoners, as part of its current inquiry on the prison system.

Ministers are currently consulting on a change in the law that would make it much easier for people born male and retaining full male anatomy to be legally recognised as female. Women’s groups say that would erode women’s legal rights to say No to sharing intimate spaces with people who have male bodies.

Nicola Williams said: “The evidence shows that allowing criminals with male bodies to have access to vulnerable women can pose a real threat. Experts have been warning about this for years but no action has been taken and women are suffering fear and abuse. MPs should be asking why the prison system is turning a blind eye to the abuse of women in its care.”

The report in the Sun is just the latest worrying sign about the risks posed by some transgender prisoners.

Senior figures in the criminal justice system have been warning of those dangers for some time and FPFW said MPs can no longer ignore the evidence." (continues)

fairplayforwomen.com/sex-attacks/

We needn't have worried, Lily Madigan says this is fear mongering and they didn't even present any evidence!

twitter.com/madigan_lily/status/1019613680202321921

"Make no mistake - this is transmisogynistic fear mongering. About 80,000 people are sexually assaulted every year in prison. A deeper look into the story shows how unsupported it is with no reports from the prison; charges; etc, There is only one reason this is front page news..."

*Given that there are only 80k prisoners in England and Wales, I imagine the above statistic quoted is incorrect or is meant to be world wide (although that seems low). In England Wales there were 300 sexual assaults in 2015 (www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/prison-system-in-total-meltdown-as-sexual-assaults-and-violent-crimes-soar-in-jails-a7004926.html) which means if the number was the same this year, this mans known assaults to date would account of 1.3% of the total

Current relevent threads:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3301266-Safeguarding-girls-and-protecting-women-post-Jimmy-Saville-metoo

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3308540-Misgendering-and-abusive-male-pattern-behaviour

80,000 people are sexually assaulted every year in prison

Almost every prisoner gets sexually assaulted every year in prison? Blimey, I knew prisons were in a bad way but an almost 100% sexual assault rate? It's worse than I thought.

James Kirkup in the Spectator 4th July:
'Labour and Tories finally see the truth about the gender debate'

(extract)
"For all that some people suggest it’s somehow prurient or distasteful to talk about penises in this debate, there is, as Nick Robinson put it in some excellent interviews on the Today Programme yesterday, no way to avoid this. The simple fact is that people with penises, whatever word we use to describe those people, are biologically different to people without penises, and that difference matters to many women in a way that cannot be dismissed as bigotry. It is, again, a simple fact that people with penises have the potential to commit certain acts of violence and abuse against others. That fact is the reason Parliament and society accept the concept of single-sex spaces: women have a right to keep someone with a penis out of those spaces.

Upholding that legal right is possibly the founding principle of several women’s groups that have sprung up since the Government first announced its intent to make it easier for people to change their legal gender. Unlike the charities that lobby for transgender rights, the women’s groups — Woman’s Place UK, Fair Play for Women and ManFriday — have no corporate or public sector funding, and not much money at all. They are genuine grassroots political organisations that have sprung up from a concerned public. Those groups have made a difference. Back in the autumn, that point about female-only spaces was either often ignored or dismissed in political debate. Women talking about penises were ridiculed as bigoted cranks, accused of transphobic misinformation. Their meetings were subjected to violent protests (one person has been convicted of assault) and a bomb threat, threats that went shamefully unremarked on by most politicians. Nevertheless, the women persisted: the meetings continued; the campaigns went on; and it made a difference. (continues)

he concludes: This isn’t a niche issue, a sideline interest for a few activists and obsessives. This is about how politics works. It’s time for the people who stay quiet to start talking."

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/07/labour-and-tories-finally-see-the-truth-about-the-gender-debate/

On the AIBU thread about Adam Laboucan/Tara Desousa I keep wanting to tell the trans allies that their arguments are persuading people in completely the wrong direction. But then I think "yay! their arguments are persuading people in completely the right direction!" and keep schtum.

They are spectacularly lacking in awareness in choosing that particular hill to die on. I guess being in thrall to a bonkers ideology reduces a person's ability to think.