This never happens: male offenders in female prisons

[NotTerfNorCis]

www.thesun.co.uk/news/6804433/transgender-lag-sexually-abused-four-female-prisoners-days-after-arriving-at-west-yorkshire-jail/

A TRANSGENDER prisoner has been accused of sexually assaulting four female inmates after being sent to a women’s prison.

The first of the alleged attacks took place within days of her arriving at New Hall jail, Wakefield, West Yorkshire.

The inmate was sent there despite not having had gender reassignment surgery.

It is claimed she was visibly aroused when she allegedly assaulted the first inmate.

She was originally sent on remand to New Hall women’s prison after a judge heard how she had been living as a female for more than two years.

The alleged attacks will reignite the debate over whether transgender prisoners should be sent to women’s jails before they have had surgery.

It is claimed the first attack ­happened within days of the transgender prisoner’s arrival at high-security New Hall, Wakefield, West Yorks.

The alleged victim — an inmate with whom she had struck up a friendship — said the remand prisoner stood close to her and touched her arm while her erect penis was sticking out from the top of her trousers.

It is alleged she subsequently made inappropriate comments about oral sex to another prisoner before giving her a bear hug.

A third alleged victim says she was also attacked.

And a fourth woman prisoner claims she was kissed on the neck.

The transgender prisoner has now been sent to a Category B men’s jail.

The latest figures show there were 125 transgender prisoners in England and Wales at the end of March 2017, up from 70 a year earlier.

At the moment transgender women can only legally change their gender on their birth certificate if they have been medically diagnosed with gender dysphoria and have lived as a woman for two years.

This is the rule often used by judges when they are deciding whether to send transgender prisoners to a male or female prison.

Under current rules transgender inmates are able to dictate how they are both searched and addressed by prison officers.

They can also benefit from greater freedom in how they dress and can shower and wash clothes in private.

Prison authorities have been forced to issue new regulations following a rapid rise in the number of transgender inmates and concern about their treatment.

Transgender prisoners first won the right to have gender surgery in 1999.

Lifer and convicted kidnapper John Pilley, now 64, and five other prisoners launched legal action to have surgery on the NHS.

Last year The Sun told how a ­double rapist who had £10,000 NHS gender surgery in prison was moved to a women’s jail.

Jessica Winfield, born Martin Ponting, attacked two girls but is now in HMP Bronzefield, Surrey.

I have also read some transwomen claiming that that they experience trans misogyny from transmen.

It was an issue around the time of NUS trans conference.

Some transwomen were seeking to exclude transmen from women's services/spaces.

I’m going to write to my Labour MP to complain about LM. They absolutely do not represent women in any shape or form. Of course we already knew this but this makes it crystal clear. How dare they disbelieve women to further their fucked up agenda!

www.reddit.com/r/LabourUK/comments/900r0o/transgender_prisoner_who_was_put_in_a_female_jail/

The thread about this on Reddit's Labour sub is terrifying. Anyone who "misgenders" the sexual assaulter is deleted and warned that they will be banned!

I have submitted a complaint to the Labour Party as has my husband who is still a member.

I have contacted my MP and a few ministers about it too.

I notice a couple of moderators on that forum dogmatically reciting 'trans women are women' and threatening those who disagree.

What happens with men who are found guilty of homosexual rape / rape of males? Are they housed in male prisons alongside men that they pose a threat to? Or are they isolated for the safety of others?

This is a genuine question. People joke about prison rape but it is endemic in some male prisons and I wonder what duty of care prison authorities have in general towards all their inmates, male, female or trans.

Or are they isolated for the safety of others?

Usually isolated for the safety of others and themselves, along with paedophiles, police officers and others who would be vulnerable to attacks from other inmates

Crap, I said I was leaving this thread alone...

And what about transmen? If it's accepted that we imprison by gender, are we truly going to send transmen to male prisons?

Materialist
This was raised recently in Daily Mail article:
'As more trans women who were convicted as men hope to follow rapist Martin Ponting into female wings, prison governors fear vulnerable inmates could be attacked'

(extract)
"Prison reformer Frances Crook said that she was worried that ‘some men with a history of extreme violence and sexual violence against women have found a new way of exercising aggression towards women’.

Ms Crook, executive director of the Howard League for Penal Reform, added: ‘These men are not transitioning because they like women and want to be a woman, but in order to exert a new kind of control and dominance over women, a sort of infiltration.

‘Moreover, the process is inherently discriminatory. A woman identifying as a man could not be transferred to a man’s jail because placing a person with female attributes into a prison to live with 1,000 men, all using communal showers and living areas, would put them in serious danger.’ (continues)

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5798945/Trans-women-convicted-men-attack-vulnerable-inmates.html

The thread about this on Reddit's Labour sub is terrifying. Anyone who "misgenders" the sexual assaulter is deleted and warned that they will be banned!

Its terrifying how little clue /insight people on threads such as that on SM, TRAs and those lobbying have into the lives of female prisoners.

The difference in male/female offender profiles has long being recognised.

It was an important basis for the recent Govt prison strategy.

"The government cited statistics showing almost 60 per cent of female offenders have experienced domestic abuse – an estimated 24 to 31 per cent have dependent children and those in jail or on probation are more than twice as likely to suffer mental health issues as men.

Almost half of all female prisoners in England and Wales say they committed their offence to support the drug use of someone else, the Ministry of Justice said, while many more are substance abusers themselves." (continues)
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/women-prison-uk-community-sentences-centres-reoffending-rates-children-funding-a8418271.html

Anne Ruzylo worked in the prison service, she spoke about her experiences, insights and knowledge of the prison estate, specifically about vulnerable women.

This speech was made in November 2017.
She was smeared and the comments in the speech misrepresented by some TRAs:

miri1985 - Just followed your link to the not at all unsuitable for the position LMs twitter post about this and here we have the excuse already in the replies

twitter.com/LiferSarah/status/1019629494062211075

Flase allegations apparently. What..an oddly male response.

Sorry, I did not RTFT before replying to it, my bad. I see r0wantrees has already brought that ridiculous predictable reply up

Thanks, Olenna and Materialist. It makes sense to treat differently any prisoner who poses a threat to fellow prisoners, either by isolation or special security. I don’t see why someone should be exempt from such special measures simply because they are trans.

Hadley Freeman on it also now. Makes a good point about Margaret Hodge.

Twitter

"An elected @UKLabour women’s officer denigrating female prisoners who have reported sexual abuse. Sure, that seems totally normal and fine and modern".

"But please, remind me again how she’s the vulnerable one and it is therefore forbidden to criticise her"

"No doubt @UKLabour will censure this women’s officer with the speed with which they went after Margaret Hodge"

Vickyyyy
The tweet you mention is on behalf of a prisoner who is serving a long sentence. They have transitioned whilst in prison but have not moved to female estate & have written a book 'Transgender Behind Bars'

Amazon blurb:
'After explaining ‘What is transgender?’ this first book on transgender in a prison setting looks at the entire HM Prison Service regime for such people. Ranging from hard information about rules and regulations, the transition process and how to access it to practical suggestions about clothing, wigs and hairpieces, make-up and coming out, the book also deals with such matters as change of name, gender identity clinics, hormones, medication and use of prison showers and toilets. Covering the entire transition process the book contains contributions from a number of transgender prisoners as well as extracts from reports showing how those in transition still tend to attract a negative portrayal. Also included are the special security implications of related procedures and descriptions of the attitudes to transgender inmates of other prisoners and staff. It contains a number of appendices dealing with the latest 2016 HM Prison Service Instruction on transgender prisoners and a range of support mechanisms including a list of specialists in the field and other useful reference sources and contacts.
It also contains Sarah Jane Baker’s account of her own male-to-female transition and the difficulties she has faced behind bars. The first book of its kind, written by a transgender life-sentence prisoner. Includes key extracts from official publications. With a graphic account of the author’s own transition journey. Contains practical information and tips.'

The tweet has been removed & there is now a transparent passive aggressive tweet attacking a particular Labour MP without naming them.

Par for the course I think.

Correction, tweet is still there.

Times article November 2017:
'Lily Madigan: I’m a transgender teen agitator; I make an ideal Labour women’s officer
Born male, Lily Madigan is at the heart of the battle raging over the question of gender identity. She talks about the row she sparked in her own party'

(extract)
You may see Lily Madigan as a crusader or you may see her as a troublemaker, but sitting in a branch of Costa in Rochester, Kent, her jeans ripped and hair dyed a dirty pink, she looks like a teenager trying to pretend everything is OK.

Last week it emerged that the transgender art student, who is only 19, had been elected “women’s officer” for her local Labour Party in Rochester and Strood, months after she lodged a complaint against a “transphobic” feminist, Anne Ruzylo, who held the same post in another constituency.

Ruzylo later stood down, prompting the party’s executive committee to quit in solidarity. The sequence of events makes it look a lot as though Madigan, who was born male, forced a woman out of a post representing women, only to snap up a matching job herself.

It is a murky little story from the murkiest circles of local Labour Party politics and no one emerges looking good. Madigan says she made a complaint against Ruzylo in September because she had “heard she had made some transphobic comments” and wanted the local executive committee to look into them.

Ruzylo, she claims, held a rally against domestic assault and “wouldn’t let trans women march in it”, as well as promoting a campaign to “drop the ‘T’ from LGBT [lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender]” on social media.

Madigan denies any bullying took place, although she was “alerted” to Ruzylo’s views by members of her local party who didn’t like her. Certainly, it isn’t easy to cast Ruzylo, 52, in the role of wounded victim. Madigan shows me a tweet Ruzylo posted that says simply: “Lily Madigan is not a woman and never will be.”

Looming in the background is the government’s proposed amendment to the Gender Recognition Act (GRA), which would allow people to change gender without needing the approval of a doctor. It’s a move that has infuriated feminist campaigners such as Ruzylo, a former prison officer, who argue the change will be exploited by sexual abusers who could declare themselves female in order to enter women’s jails and other facilities (continues)

"But like so many millennials, [Lily Madigan] would rather shut down debate than win it. Should feminists such as Germaine Greer be allowed to express views that many in the trans community find offensive? “I find it difficult to know whether we should give them a view. Everyone’s views are valid but when some views are inciting hatred against a group, sometimes there is a duty not to give them a platform,” she says.

It’s in the Labour Party that Madigan has found a home. I ask when she started to care about politics and she answers: “Jeremy Corbyn.” She joined the party after the election, has met most of her friends through it and shows me a video of Corbyn answering a question from her at Labour’s youth policy conference. Raising Corbyn’s terrible track record with women’s rights is pointless because Madigan is evangelical. She wants to be the first transgender MP.

How, at 19, can she have enough experience to represent the interests of women in the constituency? “I’m good at trans rights and student rights,” she says. “I did a lot of work around stopping the council here shutting Sure Start centres; I’ve been speaking to victims of rape recently.”. (continues)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lily-madigan-im-a-transgender-teen-agitator-imake-an-ideal-labour-womens-officer-2ctxksngx

Vickyyyy should we let the CPS know that obviously the evidence they collected to bring this to trial is incorrect and this Sarah Jane Baker has it all sussed

Vickyyy
The tweet you mention is on "behalf" of this "person"

Imho they should not have tweets made by, for or on behalf of them