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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

This never happens: male offenders in female prisons

156 replies

NotTerfNorCis · 17/07/2018 23:14

www.thesun.co.uk/news/6804433/transgender-lag-sexually-abused-four-female-prisoners-days-after-arriving-at-west-yorkshire-jail/

A TRANSGENDER prisoner has been accused of sexually assaulting four female inmates after being sent to a women’s prison.

The first of the alleged attacks took place within days of her arriving at New Hall jail, Wakefield, West Yorkshire.

The inmate was sent there despite not having had gender reassignment surgery.

It is claimed she was visibly aroused when she allegedly assaulted the first inmate.

She was originally sent on remand to New Hall women’s prison after a judge heard how she had been living as a female for more than two years.

The alleged attacks will reignite the debate over whether transgender prisoners should be sent to women’s jails before they have had surgery.

It is claimed the first attack ­happened within days of the transgender prisoner’s arrival at high-security New Hall, Wakefield, West Yorks.

The alleged victim — an inmate with whom she had struck up a friendship — said the remand prisoner stood close to her and touched her arm while her erect penis was sticking out from the top of her trousers.

It is alleged she subsequently made inappropriate comments about oral sex to another prisoner before giving her a bear hug.

A third alleged victim says she was also attacked.

And a fourth woman prisoner claims she was kissed on the neck.

The transgender prisoner has now been sent to a Category B men’s jail.

The latest figures show there were 125 transgender prisoners in England and Wales at the end of March 2017, up from 70 a year earlier.

At the moment transgender women can only legally change their gender on their birth certificate if they have been medically diagnosed with gender dysphoria and have lived as a woman for two years.

This is the rule often used by judges when they are deciding whether to send transgender prisoners to a male or female prison.

Under current rules transgender inmates are able to dictate how they are both searched and addressed by prison officers.

They can also benefit from greater freedom in how they dress and can shower and wash clothes in private.

Prison authorities have been forced to issue new regulations following a rapid rise in the number of transgender inmates and concern about their treatment.

Transgender prisoners first won the right to have gender surgery in 1999.

Lifer and convicted kidnapper John Pilley, now 64, and five other prisoners launched legal action to have surgery on the NHS.

Last year The Sun told how a ­double rapist who had £10,000 NHS gender surgery in prison was moved to a women’s jail.

Jessica Winfield, born Martin Ponting, attacked two girls but is now in HMP Bronzefield, Surrey.

OP posts:
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theOtherPamAyres · 20/07/2018 10:29

There is a bigger picture, before you even get to prisons.

The police acknowledge 'gender identity' so require female officers to search men who identify as women. What does the Police Federation (supposedly representing women officers) think of that? How is the woman officer to distinguish between fetishists, drag artists and transexuals?

Often, detainees have to be 'doubled up' in police cells at busy times. Can Police and Crime Commissioners agree that there is a safeguarding issue here where sex has to come before gender identity. What instructions are given to police officers in custody suites about the separation of the sexes?

The Witness Service provided by courts is there to assist vulnerable women witnesses, including witnesses to murder, rape, assault, abuse and domestic violence cases. What are the arrangements to separate the sexes in waiting rooms and maintain safe spaces? Will an intact male who claims to be a woman be allowed into the space?

hackmum · 20/07/2018 10:57

It’s really good to see Frances Crook, quoted above, making such a strong and clear statement about the issues. She has a very high profile and could be an important ally.

BettyDuMonde · 20/07/2018 11:02

More on Sarah Jane Baker - victim blamer - here: www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/violent-convict-sex-change-operation-2119490

Kyanite · 20/07/2018 18:23

The Sun have seen Lily's tweet and written an article in response.

Bringing the Party into disrepute?

www.thesun.co.uk/news/6823069/labour-activist-remarks-transgender-exclusive/

NotTerfNorCis · 20/07/2018 18:51

It seems LM finally went too far. This will only get worse now the Sun is aware of LM.

OP posts:
TerfsUp · 20/07/2018 19:22

This will only get worse now the Sun is aware of LM.

Good.

VickyEadie · 20/07/2018 19:27

Labour may learn (though I doubt it, so far are they down the rabbit hole of trashing their entire party) to their cost that allowing inexperienced, poorly-informed and deluded single-issue fanatics to hold office tends to lead to those people talking bollocks in public.

R0wantrees · 21/07/2018 08:20

twitter.com/HWGYoungLabour/status/1020009994471854081

Young Labour Trans Rights panel yesterday.

Lily Madigan with Jess Bradley (NUS trans officer /Action For Trans Health) & Eden Ladley (NUS LGBT+ Women's place officer)

Jess Bradley interviewed recently on Sky program about GRA
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3311038-Sky-News-9-30am-today-re-GRA

Eden Ladley organising role in Trans 18 conference
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3237230-NUS-Conference-breaks-down-after-the-UK-Border-Force-Arrive

Eden Ladley also co-ran workshop at NUS Women's 18 'How to Deal with Terfs'.
Thread discussing slideshow from workshop (link with MN intern who breached data)
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3222263-Slide-show-on-How-to-Deal-with-TERFs

see Rose of Dawn's videos:

This never happens: male offenders in female prisons
This never happens: male offenders in female prisons
This never happens: male offenders in female prisons
TransplantsArePlants · 21/07/2018 08:22

So, the shit hits the fan for LM. Trying to find some sympathy...nope

TransplantsArePlants · 21/07/2018 08:24

And THANK YOU again ROwan for your links Smile

TransplantsArePlants · 21/07/2018 08:27

Rose of Dawn is fab

LizzieSiddal · 21/07/2018 08:27

I actually do worry about LM.
This isn’t the first time LM has Tweeted something outrageous, Labour must be aware and are doing nothing. It could all end very badly imo and I wonder who’ll get the blame? It won’t be Labour that’s for sure!

TransplantsArePlants · 21/07/2018 08:29

Lizzie

I know. I regret saying I don't have any sympathy. Actually I do have some because LM will be hung out to dry and should have been stopped

R0wantrees · 21/07/2018 09:41

Lily Madigan is starting university in the autumn, its likely to be a new chapter.

It seems likely that the damage will be done to Corbyn, Abbott and others who have been seen to be so close, or at least attempts will be made to direct it there.

It is important to remember that this is a cross-party issue.

BertrandRussell · 21/07/2018 09:52

I do hope that Lily Madigan can just quietly slide off to University and do sone growing up out of the spotlight and out of reach of the puppet masters.

OlennasWimple · 21/07/2018 18:46

I do hope that Lily Madigan can just quietly slide off to University and do sone growing up out of the spotlight and out of reach of the puppet masters

On a politics course at Goldsmiths?? Not likely

Though I agree that would be the very best thing for LM in the long run

LangCleg · 21/07/2018 19:00

On a politics course at Goldsmiths?? Not likely

LOL! Pomo Central.

Popchyk · 21/07/2018 19:01

Won't happen.

Madigan needs the income from people following them on social media.

And they won't pay if the product is not up to scratch.

R0wantrees · 24/07/2018 08:23

Janice Turner & Lily Madigan comment:

twitter.com/VictoriaPeckham/status/1021065166459473921

This never happens: male offenders in female prisons
boatyardblues · 24/07/2018 08:43

Janice is so on the money.

R0wantrees · 24/07/2018 08:55

RE Goldsmiths,
See Jess Bradley's comment as NUS Trans Officer in NUS Connect News following attack of Maria Maclachlan by T Wolf (September 2017):

"Zoom out even further and you’ll see that this battle between TERFs and trans activists is part of a bigger war between the second wave of feminism, of which trans-exclusionary radical feminism is a notable tendency, and third and fourth wave feminism, which are more intersectional and inclusive in their approach. The key break between second wave feminism and those feminisms that came afterwards was its position on trans people and on sex work. So the

Looking at the TERF’s framing of this event as being about (male) violence against women, misogynistic violence, you’d be forgiven for not realising this conflict was not between women and misogynists, but one between two branches of feminism. This was compounded by the fact that most of their messaging around who was responsible for the counter-demo focused on the trans activist group London Action for Trans Health, even if it was jointly organised between them, Sisters Uncut, and feminists at Goldsmiths Students' Union. By doing so, the TERFs were able to conveniently ignore that some cis feminists had mobilised in solidarity with their trans sisters and siblings, and paint the conflict as one exclusively between trans people and women (with the implicit assertion that trans women are not, in fact, “real women”).

The fact is, anti-trans radical feminism is becoming increasingly irrelevant. Their ideological position is being replaced by a feminism represented by groups like Sisters Uncut and Action for Trans Health, one that is vibrant, intersectional and genuinely radical. Besides hating on sex workers and trans people, anti-trans radical feminists offer little in terms of vision. TERFs have to resort to attacking us because without the oxygen of publicity that comes from riling trans activists up at events like this, nobody would pay any attention."

www.nusconnect.org.uk/articles/there-is-nothing-radical-or-feminist-about-transphobia

BettyDuMonde · 24/07/2018 10:34

JB bigging up ATH as though it isn’t their own (batshit) project.

genderskeptic · 24/07/2018 13:55

There are already loads of men in women's prisons who rape them! they're called GUARDS!

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