Are we the baddies?

[DJLippy]

Are we the baddies?

Are Terf's as bad as everybody seems to say?

Are we on the wrong side of history?

Anyone ever stop to ask themselves this or is it just me?

It's pretty rare for abusers, for instance, to agonise about whether they're the ones in the wrong.

It's that thing about not asking a question if you aren't prepared to hear the answer: I suspect most abusers know, initially at least, that what they are doing is wrong, so they can't ask themselves the questions lest they remind themselves that they are doing something awful

Of course I ask myself this - who wouldn't'? Especially as so many seem to have an alternative viewpoint.....but the deeper I examine it the more I realise it really is the Emperors new clothes and others being slow to wake to the extraordinary misogyny and appropriation of "the most oppressed people ever"

And I know myself, and I know that I will fight doggedly for what is right... and I know here that right is protecting women and children and that is my priority....

I don't think the Nazi's ever questioned this.

Then you really need to learn more about how good people do bad things. Or you're in danger of believing yourself to be immune. Not every nazi was a psychopath. Quite obviously.

It's really worrying actually that you wouldn't know that.

No we're not.

It's hard to be the target of so much hatred for asserting our rights.

I never ask myself if I'm a baddie.

I think, constantly.

I listen, I read, I consider. I weigh things up. I think about the effect of my preferences on others. I think about how we can go forward so that everyone's needs are met in a good-enough way (except those of abusive men - their needs can just fuck right off to jail, or hell, or the deepest cavern of an Incel board on the dark web).

And I get more, and more, and more gender critical by the day.

And I'm not sorry.

And I'm willing to lose my friends, and be ridiculed for it. Because actually this is way more important than I am.

The thing is, though, that right now, kind acceptance is starting to feel like standing by while a great wrong is going on around us.

We have increasing numbers of friends whose daughters have been swept up in this and are at different stages on a pathway to sterility and surgery. Forgive me if I don't find that cheering.

I has been my observation that ethical people always ask the is it me or is it them out loud and discuss it.
Self righteous people may ask themselves this question in the dark night of the soul after harming people with their violence, but I noticed they choose not to ever discuss it.

"Can't we just live and let live?" My friend asked me this on Friday. I've not seen her in a while but obviously she's seen my Twitter feed...

I have thought about this. And then I realised that that's just the default position for women, isn't it? We are stymied by our own socialisation. I cannot accept a delusion when it impinges upon women and girls.

If your asking yourself if your the baddies then chances are yes... Yes you are

Completely the reverse is true, actually. Because the baddies are usually narcissists incapable of interrogating themselves.

That's where DARVO comes from.

We are not wrong.

Orwell in Looking back on the Spanish War:

A British and a German historian would disagree deeply on many things, even on fundamentals, but there would still be that body of, as it were, neutral fact on which neither would seriously challenge the other. It is just this common basis of agreement, with its implication that human beings are all one species of animal, that totalitarianism destroys. Nazi theory indeed specifically denies that such a thing as ‘the truth’ exists. There is, for instance, no such thing as ‘Science’. There is only ‘German Science’, ‘Jewish Science’, etc. The implied objective of this line of thought is a nightmare world in which the Leader, or some ruling clique, controls not only the future but the past. If the Leader says of such and such an event, ‘It never happened’ — well, it never happened. If he says that two and two are five — well, two and two are five. This prospect frightens me much more than bombs — and after our experiences of the last few years that is not a frivolous statement.

I worry about being "on the wrong side" all the time. But then I ask myself: who is saying objective truth doesn't matter, that there is "your reality and my reality" and the past is irrelevant? What side stifles opinions and critical thought?

I think Betty is right - it is not a question of sides, it is standing up for what women want and need against a constant onslaught of change. Somebody has to do it.

In a few years when masses of now adult men and women come forward about what has been done to their bodies and minds by puberty blockers and people start to say things like "why did no one mention the risks, why did no one speak out against this?" my conscience will be clear.

History has never been on the side of those who sterilise children

Baddies for what? Wanting privacy, dignity and safety for women and girls? Something that we thought we already had.

For not wanting to look at a penis and say it's female?

For not saying that humans can change sex?

For speaking the truth?

No, I don't question that at all.

I read something that struck a chord with me last week.

At the time, the family protecting Anne Frank and her family were lawbreakers and “in the wrong” and the soldiers and police searching for her and her family were legally right and not breaking any laws.

History tells its own story.

Idk. It’s disheartening though when you see so many highly intelligent and educated people blindly state that there is no difference between trans women and biological women. Maybe common sense will prevail eventually but it will need some sacrificial lambs i fear. It also won’t happen overnight or maybe even in our lifetime.

"Zeus no longer rules Olympus but rather the solar plexus, and produces curious specimens for the doctor's consulting room, or disorders the brains of politicians and journalists who unwittingly let loose psychic epidemics on the world”
Carl Jung

Really good and thought provoking op. I love that they make out genuine concern to be some sort of evangelical right wing hate crime activity. That's how the coverage looks or snorting some Mrs Doyle-esque derision at "those lesbians".

In my grandmas day women's rights were said to be anti-men, and now women's rights are said to be anti-trans.

The women's rights movement has lost men their legal ownership of women and children. So they have a point. The point clearly illustrates that they were and still are the baddies.

Naw peaks they not intelligent if they can’t not see it

Am not going lie to anyone n

Cos of course them highly intelligent women will not be the ones who are getting their breast cut off

Tbh am sure not one working class person believes any o& this stuff. Not oneb

PeakPants
Thats the thing though isn't it, no-one is saying their is no difference between trans women and natal women, the prefixes, one of which is banned distinctly show that.

Can they both be women, but different types of women, increasingly across society and amongst natal women that answer is yes.

The whole point of 3rd wave feminism is that there are different types of women with different experiences, ........and as such, trans women are included in that, and it is by far the most popular strand of feminism in this day and age.

Naw Garam just no all the nopes there is.

I don’t pick sides I have opinions.

Ergo I never wonder if I might be ‘a baddie’. I do carefully consider my opinions but I usually expand my ideas or have realisations. I don’t think I have ever had a complete about face on anything big...

Picking a side is not mandatory, in fact I think it’s a significant part of the problem.

Can they both be women, but different types of women, increasingly across society and amongst natal women that answer is yes.

18% and rapidly declining. The more they know the more they say no.