Are we the baddies?

[DJLippy]

Are we the baddies?

Are Terf's as bad as everybody seems to say?

Are we on the wrong side of history?

Anyone ever stop to ask themselves this or is it just me?

Given that you can currently self-ID the gender on your passport, I agree that there is little point in having it there at all and as a pp said, facial recognition ensures that people aren't using ID that is not theirs.

Obviously there need to be some official records kept somewhere of natal sex, but there is no need for it to be displayed on the photo page of the passport.

That's nice

My god - there has been a klaxon call hasn't there?

Seriously there was a rapist on the loose and police put out an alert for a woman who might be dressed on men's clothing. It was a cRoss dresser. I mean that actually put women's lives at risk.

Also, not everyone has a passport and from memory, I don't think the drivers licence has gender displayed on it, and it is a perfectly valid form of ID.

Well it's not very nice to put women at risk of rape by giving out an inaccurate description of a sex offender, is it

Y they're all scared of the lesbians

Yes, Plod would do much better at catching Crims if they just put out calls on androgynous figures in black and white striped shirts wearing black masks and carrying black sacks of loot. FFS.

PeakPants the driving license does but you need to know what It means to read it. also you can not self id on a passport you need a doctors letter to do that.

society is gendered was the point to this Pratchet and yes somethings. need to be recorded by sex and gender but a lot of stuff does not. but feel free to just make ya assumptions

The primary purpose of a passport is for international travel. In all countries of the world there is a shared understanding of sex. In some critical situations it is very important to have sex indicated on passports.

There is an option to have specific information recored on a particular page.

There are still a very small number of countries which have gender self-id.

There are other documents such as driving licence where sex is irrelevent & which would serve well for id purposes.

I think people are thinking of Craig/Lisa Hauxwell, multiple rapist. The police had no idea how to describe Hauxwell to warn the public, it was ridiculous.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/06/gender-sex-offender-bbc-crimewatch-appeal-attacker-could-living/

Ye, bespin I just googled it actually- I didn't know that. Well surely something similar could work with passports where there is a numerical identifier (which would be incapable of being changed). That way, when you show your ID to get into a nightclub, you won't have the bouncers questioning you or laughing, yet if you are stopped by the police, they would easily be able to find out your natal sex (if it was ever in doubt).

What assumptions? That males commit most sexual and violent crime by a country mile?, it's a matter of record mate

Five-ish years ago a friend started tentatively saying things to me about this new gender identity ideology. I've known this person a long time and they can get a bit conspiracy theorist about things. At that time, I was knee deep in trying to combat the effects of austerity, mostly on women but also on unemployed and disabled people. I thought I was fighting the best, most important, fight and my friend was being all drama lama over student politics, which weren't really affecting anything. Not like austerity was, anyway. Then my kids went to uni and started to moan about the woke police, as Glinner would put it.

I can't honestly remember what it was that made me think ok, maybe they have a real point and I should investigate, but I reached that point and investigate I did. I investigated for ages before I said anything. I looked at trans fora, at what the activists were saying, at what the political demands were. I looked at the child transition websites like 4th Wave Now. I spoke to lesbians I know. I lurked over the radfem accounts on Twitter. I read the botched Miller consultation. This was about two years ago.

Even at that point, I thought there would be the possibility of some policy accommodation with "moderate transactivists" or at least with the old school transsexuals.

Now, I see that the activist movement is insatiable. It will never compromise. And at no point have I wanted to come to that conclusion. The only people who have forced me into it are the activists themselves.

So now, all I am interested in is what is good for women and girls (and GNC male children).

I'm not wrong and I won't be changing my mind.

What the fuck was that Frankenterfer?!

I worry. I reassess all the time. And like so many other I come down on the same side. I feel for the individuals but this is about the masses. And so often I am speaking up for the ones who cannot. The children being pushed and pulled. The women in prision. The ones in mental health wards. The ones who have been raped, are in refuges. The ones who do not know yet that they will need this protection.

The huge number who do not know this is happening.

Make no mistake, the people who will suffer most are the disenfranchised: the poor, the uneducated, the people with health problems. The 80% who will detransition and will be scarred and mutilated and bullied for wanting to be the person they were born as.

I speak for them. It scares me how many don't.

So would those of you who want to relegate trans women to shared spaces be exclusively using those shared spaces yourselves too? If you think trans women belong in male spaces, will you be sharing those male spaces too?

Or is the gender critical position biological elitism and asserting privilege, as men have always done to women that you demand single-sex spaces for yourself while disenfranchising a vulnerable group of people?

Because, regardless of how you see them, trans women experience life as women and their lived-experience would be of a woman denied access to women's spaces and forced to use exclusively male spaces - the only woman in there. And remember many of them do have vaginas. A surprising number (more evidence of a likely underlying physical cause) are relatively short - under 5' 8" - and have no physical strength advantage. And increasingly a significant number have lived as girls / women from childhood and been totally socialised as women.

And if you can't imagine how that would be for yourself, think how it would be if one of your children, grand children or other relatives was a trans woman. Would you want it for her?

Ah, we're back to "biological elitism" again, otherwise known to the rest of the world as "understanding where babies come from".

Snappity, do share the research showing that transwomen are, in surprising numbers, short, likely due to an underlying physical cause.

Funny, most of the transwomen I've met have absolutely towered over me.

So would those of you who want to relegate trans women to shared spaces be exclusively using those shared spaces yourselves too?

Well yes we will. As all spaces will be 'shared' spaces, in your Brave New World of self ID

AAK, oh how I felt my biological elitism today when my period came unannounced at work, and I had to change my trousers in the ladies and get a colleague to fetch me some heavy duty pads. I was so shamed by own snobbery at wanting a space where I could be private in that situation.

Funny, most of the transwomen I've met have absolutely towered over me.

They are the ones that you notice.

I'm fascinated by this new development in Snappity's grand theory of alternate biology though. Next up finger length?

I was totes biologically elitist when I told DH that he could go deal with his mum's car problems by himself because I have cramps and can't be arsed.

The ones bashing in the bloke at Leicester Square looked quite... er.... tall? Perhaps I was bamboozled by the stilettos?