Are we the baddies?

[DJLippy]

Are we the baddies?

Are Terf's as bad as everybody seems to say?

Are we on the wrong side of history?

Anyone ever stop to ask themselves this or is it just me?

"I am more educated than most having done actual university funded research in gender studies that has won awards"

Just to try and pick this apart. Okay, let's leave aside for the moment the 'gender studies' bit 'cos apart from the great womens studies erasure by 'gender studies' that's a bit too social sciences for me.......

'university funded research' ? O, I wish people would learn to punctuate! (and not just their equilibria........). Research funded by a university, for example, could mean someone who was doing a Masters (which included a research component), and managed to get a scholarship/award of some sort. But then Masters usually a nice little earner in the UK, so not quite sure. Research done at a university? Well, that almost goes without saying, who else bothers with 'gender studies'? Funded research? Well, has to be unless you are independently wealthy...........

So, still no wiser! :-) Just older.........

"..that has won awards.." Usually, students doing research as part of a degree program would be more concerned that they got the degree. A prize/award on top might be nice, but the MSc, PhD, DPhil component usually the most important part.
As regards post-docs and research (where degrees have already been accumulated to the required standard), 'awards' and 'prizes' do happen, but usually at conferences where you get best paper prize, or best poster prize or something.

'I am more educated than most' In general, or just in this field? And frankly, not what you tend to hear from actual academics (where kind of the whole personal focus is/should be on what you don't know, rather than what you do), or if you do tends to also come with list of degrees, h-index, number of papers etc etc. This 'done research' and 'won awards' could be, frankly, an undergraduate who has done some research as part of their degree, and got some uni money to facilitate that (happens at my uni in psychology, say, and various other fields). And then there could, for example, be a prize at graduation for best student research project (ditto at my uni).

So colour me sceptical and highly unimpressed by these claims of academic and/or intellectual superiority...............

Excuse name change, wanted to post on another thread w/o others hounding me from here

So I posted here too identifying my name change

I personally wouldn’t consider you feminists

Yeah, I struggle with the ‘four letter acronym that we don’t use here’ in part because I don’t think I’m worthy of the title ‘radical feminist’. ‘SPEAM’ is probably closer to my reality:

‘Stranger’s Penii Exclusionary Average Mum’

Funny old world, ain’t it?

actual university funded research in gender studies just says to me that you would be the last person likely to admit that gender is bollocks, really.

Why not study differences in outcome depending on something objectively verifiable, like, I dunno, biological sex?

"The problem with MumsNet users and their views on people who are transgender

All 12 million of them? That's a rather large generalisation.

I am more educated than most having done actual university funded research in gender studies that has won awards rather than the super egotistical google you're all capable of"

This is the thing, there are not 12 million gender critical mumsnet users.
Any that are not gender critical mostly get hounded off the feminism boards.

These feminism boards are dominated by a couple of hundred people at best. Whatever the stats are traffic etc, the same dozen or so voices constantly set the narrative.

It's a teensy tiny percentage of the '12 million mumsnet users' that believe this anti-trans-framed-as-womens-rights-nonsense.

I would love someone to break down the most toxic anti-trans threads, and see who shepherds the narrative, it would be no surprise to anyone who has read more than a dozen threads exactly how few names constantly come up again and again setting the tone.

Arf! keep your hair on, whatever your name is now. Don’t insult us twice by pretending you didn’t mean the first one. You wouldn’t be the first person to rock up believing that they were considerably more educated than a bunch of mummies. If you don’t think that, then fine.

somedyke

82% of voters are opposed to Self ID.

Active posters on this board may well be relatively few in number but our opinion on self ID isn’t unusual out in the real world.

We’ve far more in common with the other 12 millions Mumsnetters than you imagine.

I personally wouldn’t consider you feminists

I self identify as a feminist. So how can you tell me I'm not?

Lol goddess

I agree SomeDyke. My thought process on reading those credentials was:

"I am more educated than most
Really? Why do you think that?
having done actual university
Which university? Cambridge? Something online and unaccredited?
funded
Who funded it and why?
research
what research? Which parameters, conclusions? Was it peer reviewed? By whom?
In gender studies
What's that? Why should I take this field more seriously than biological sciences?
that has won awards"
Which awards? Are we talking Nobel Prize or certificate from your university?

Garam my point was exactly that It's ridiculous to suggest that 12 million MN users have the same opinion on trans issues.

Lance "actual university funded research in gender studies just says to me that you would be the last person likely to admit that gender is bollocks, really."

Indeed. Follow the money...

garam, did you read barracks post on the increase in traffic coming through the feminism board?

How do you reach the conclusion that they are here because they don’t like what’s being said? I mean sure, some of that population will be hate-reading, but they can’t all be so shy they can’t bear to post, ever.

Likewise, I can’t definitively conclude that they’re all supportive. Neither of us know- but it’s a weird proposition that those not posting have a different composition to those posting. Why would they? If anything, the evidence suggests the opposite to what you’re saying: There’s a constant stream of posters delurking to say they find the arguments convincing, and far fewer who delurk to take exception.

smile15 the statement you made about gay men being considered paedophiles is wrong through and through.

You are conflating two points.

The first is that the age of consent for homosexual male sex used to be 21, whilst it was 16 (or 18?) for heterosexual sex. Gay men rightly campaigned to remove the discrepancy.

However, there was also another group who argued that the age of consent should be removed completely (Paedophile Information Exchange among other). The latter co-opted the legitimacy of the main arguments and were rightly called out on this and under-age sex is deplored and a crime.

But neither of these things mean people thought the gay male population were paedophiles!

It's awful. Whittle is behind vast amounts of 'under the radar' change. At the time this was recorded *he was actively working behind the scenes on UN and EU policy, I believe.

Nick Matte

Apologies! Thought it was Stephen Whittle