A woman is an adult female human

[Pratchet]

Of the sex whose reproductive role is to gestate and bear young.

Let's just say this while we still can. Because it's true, and however many people try to make us lie about it, or remain silent, it will always be true.

In times of universal deceit, speaking the truth is a revolutionary act.

It hurts MY feelings to see 'transwomen are women'. It damages MY mental health to see that, it makes ME feel erased and MY identity feel destroyed. I have a voice and I deserve that voice. WE deserve it.

I am Spartacus. A woman is an adult female human. Sex is binary, immutable and defined by reproductive role.

If you report me, or get me banned you shoot the messenger. Because this is true and will always be true. And this day, this day of a lie, I WILL say it.

#Spartacus

WTAF!

I have never seen such a blatant attempt to silence women on here.

MNHQ
Rather than having a chat in the office about a thread stating biological facts, you really need to be looking at your talk guidelines and if your mods are the right people for the job.
It appears that the FWR may not be the right place for some of them.

"It appears that the FWR may not be the right place for some of them."

Ha ha!!!

@Newspeak I've sent you a PM

This is surreal.

Bizarre.

A woman is an adult human female. This is a factual statement. It should not be controversial. A whole thread of women stating it should be no different than a whole thread of women stating that the Earth is round or the sky is blue.

The first Spartacus threads made me emotional in a positive way. So many women standing up for the truth.

"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" - Orwell

could someone PM me with info about the other place please! or tell me I can't be trusted.

I mean you are joking surely.

Justine made it quite clear that moderators are not to be criticised. She wants her team to be happy in their work, loyal and, I think we all know, it's a thankless task.

It's lovely to have a supportive boss but honestly this is a terrible policy. People make mistakes, and nobody's judgement is perfect. If nobody is allowed to point out that a specific person appears to have made a deeply flawed judgement call without the threat of banning hovering over their head then you've created a situation where protecting your employees from having to admit that they're wrong is more important than any amount of anger, upset, fear, frustration, or confusion felt by your users. That is not a recipe for a successful business.

Lost for words here @MNHQ The Government Minister running the consultation about who can define themselves as a man or a woman has started by saying that men are women. (no mention of women that are men!) And women here stating that being a woman is about biology as defined in the dictionaries is unacceptable here on Mumsnet?

Most of the posts on the other boards consist of repetition and many of them are not debate.

I honestly think you have lost the plot here.

Our biology is not inflammatory. Neither here, nor on the menopause threads, IVF threads, DV threads.

I can only conclude that MN has taken this approach to highlight the absurdity of female biology being considered inflammatory? Because the alternative is too awful to contemplate.

"but the act of repeating it relentlessly is not really not the same thing as stating it as part of a civil debate in which an opposing view could make itself heard if it wished."
I hope you will apply the same principles to the threads which appear to be there solely for the purpose of repeating "trans women are women" relentlessly

In effect, the thread as a whole is inflammatory - that isn't conducive to civil debate and seems likely to make Mumsnet feel hostile by most trans people, regardless of their ideology.

So women gathering on a thread to state the biological fact the women are "Of the sex whose reproductive role is to gestate and bear young" is a problem?

Have I got that right? And it's a problem because women stating facts about ourselves is hostile to people who think that humans can change reproductive sex?

And it's hostile because it's not conducive to "civil debate"?

Can I ask @KateMumsnet to consult with the office as to what that "civil debate" might be? I would really appreciate a clarification because at the moment it looks like whether women are " "Of the sex whose reproductive role is to gestate and bear young" is considered an acceptable subject for debate on MN.

Which not only shocks me because it is an anti-woman position but also because it makes me concerned for MN as a whole.

The entire premise of the website is that women are of the sex whose reproductive role is to gestate and bear young.

It won't take long for whoever is lobbying HQ to up the ante. The very existence of the website is not compatible with a denial of where babies come from.

"It's not the same thing as a thread to discuss Penny Mordaunt's language or how to get involved in the consultation, or to recommend a good form of words to mail your MP."

But it actually IS the same thing. In response to Penny Mordaunt's comment the OP started a thread. That is what this thread IS.

I am really upset now. I actually needed to read this opening post, today. I needed it. I appreciated it and I was moved to contribute. Now you are telling me we can't state our biological reality in case we offend. I can't believe what I am reading tbh.

We need to be able to state that a woman is an adult human female because if we can't, we can't name the medical profession's failure to treat gynaecological problems, maternity discrimination, the tampon tax, men's prejudices about PMT etc as being reasons why women are oppressed. If you take our collective noun, "women" and redefine it, we cannot name our oppression. @mnhq do you not see this?

but the act of repeating it relentlessly is not really not the same thing as stating it as part of a civil debate in which an opposing view could make itself heard if it wished."

HQ, Please remember, almost every poster here had posted ONCE.

You can't equate the number of women who hold the same opinion, with "relentless repetition".

Fucking hell, what's democracy?

This is absurd.

A business that has built itself from the goodwill and words of women, that makes money through advertising to women is incredibly shortsighted to stifle women declaring their biology.

It won't be the TWAW lot buying prams, nappies and baby food.

Sex is still a protected EA category too you know. So any perceived hostility on the basis of sex can also be challenged.

This is the type of thread that has given MN its hard earned reputation for transphobia.

A cherry picked deliberately trans exclusionary definition of woman is floated. It is then pointed out that this cherry picked definition excludes some intersex women (who GC feminists consider women).

Immediately GC feminists cry appropriation of intersex women's experiences. But there is no appropriation. Trans and intersex are different conditions. All that is being pointed out that this "biological" immutable definition of woman does not apply to all non-trans women as well as excluding trans women.

Defining womanhood by chromosomes ignores the social, legal and biological reality of many trans women's lives. And I do mean biology. Biology is not just chromosomes but also hormones, primary and secondary sex organs etc.

So this definition ignores the biological reality of trans women and intersex women.
I am Spartacus.

Truly truly extraordinary.

Yes.

How are statements of biological fact even to be considered as requiring debate?

And why is it wrong to reassert that fact?

Look, in middle age I'm not as limber as I used to be, so I'm afraid that there's only so far that it's reasonable to ask me to bend over backwards in order to avoid "inflaming" people who're upset by the realities of human reproductive biology.

What the hell?

I was sexually assaulted several times as a teenager. I ignored and suppressed and minimised etc for years that what happened was wrong. It was very much part of the culture then; that sort of thing happened and it was probably slightly my fault or something.

Me too, for all its flaws, helped me understand that what happened to me was wrong and not OK. I needed to hear the voices of many many other women before I was brave enough to hear my own. My experience was given a context within the wider experiences of women worldwide and throughout time.

On this thread the many and repeated voices are important! We are proving that for many women the word woman means adult human female, not gender. We hear that many women are deeply upset by the assumption that their sexed bodies have had no impact in their life experiences. We hear many women are terrified of the ramifications of erasing the sex class of women in public policy.

If some people believe in gender that's great for them. I wish them well as I do people who follow religions I don't subscribe to. But my gender is not woman so when I say woman I mean my sex. And women NEED to be allowed a word to define themselves otherwise how can they describe, monitor and change their oppression?

I don't have anything to add to previous posters, I am just so shocked at MNHQ response to a frankly much needed affirmation thread.

SarhAr for the love of God, provide your alternative definition.

@MNHQ I believe that you're having to walk a very fine line here. But your diplomacy should not be at the expense of women's rights and free speech, you know this, the posters on this thread know this.

@MNHQ you want to appear to be fair to everyone, but that position is not sustainable in this current environment where women's rights are actively being eroded. Please do not be party with those who are trying to eradicate our precious rights.

Trans people should have rights and be supported, but I don't believe that has to at the expense of women's rights. It should not be at the expense of women's rights.

thank you to all you brilliant FWR posters, stay strong. I love you all, you keep me sane.

Material reality, that's my baby