A woman is an adult female human

[Pratchet]

Of the sex whose reproductive role is to gestate and bear young.

Let's just say this while we still can. Because it's true, and however many people try to make us lie about it, or remain silent, it will always be true.

In times of universal deceit, speaking the truth is a revolutionary act.

It hurts MY feelings to see 'transwomen are women'. It damages MY mental health to see that, it makes ME feel erased and MY identity feel destroyed. I have a voice and I deserve that voice. WE deserve it.

I am Spartacus. A woman is an adult female human. Sex is binary, immutable and defined by reproductive role.

If you report me, or get me banned you shoot the messenger. Because this is true and will always be true. And this day, this day of a lie, I WILL say it.

#Spartacus

Fuck - apologies to the Grammer police.

I do know the difference between your and you're but I was typing in a fury

I really thought I'd seen it all on MN over the years.

But to see MNHQ making the decision that it's inflammatory for MNers to say that a woman is an adult female human has left my flabber well and truly gasted.

I'm sorry to hear about all the women who are upset by this, but unfortunately I truly don't believe MNHQ cares. Neither our distress and hurt nor our anger nor even scientific facts matter it appears. I've experienced enough abuse in my life from men I could not escape I'm not about to put up with the same gaslighting from a site I used to view as supportive.

I've also not been trusted with knowledge of the other place (understandably with the breaches going on) so I guess I'll see you all if you decide to join us on Gender Critical Reddit. My genuine thanks as a long time mostly lurker to the fantastic posters on here.

I've tried. I've written and deleted post after post for this thread.

I'm nodding in fierce agreement with most posts here, whether it's short and succinct, a new poster going 'WTF', or a seasoned poster nailing the argument (datun as always, seafret loving it, and to many others ).

What's interesting in MNHQ's insistence on a 'debate, don't just state' point of view, is that the definition of woman is such an important, deep-rooted, fact-informed truth that's under attack, for so many adult human females here.

And yet, the adult human females here are staying calm, they're stating facts, they don't attack the minority of posters who keep restating the mantra 'transwomen are women'.

And they ask calmly yet persistently for facts and information from those who are stating this, to help us understand the reasoning.

And yet we're just told, "you've been told already/everyone knows" or just met with silence.

How can you 'debate' with a brick wall that just has the mantra 'transwomen are women' painted on it?

All that's left is to stand in solidarity with each other, to remind us all what remains still to be the truth - what an adult human female really is.

What is terrifying to me is the way in which reality is being denied, language is being redefined and reasoned, informed debate is being shut down.

There is no basis in reality for the assertions of those in support of self-identification who believe that a woman is whatever a man says it is. The vicious and aggressive silencing of those who assert material reality, backed up by a lot of evidence, is very revealing. It is the wielding of power to give a privileged minority carte blanche at the expense of half the population.

I am fairly new to Mumsnet. I am appalled at the attitude of the Mothership (whatever the site moderators call themselves). My speaking about my biological and social reality as a woman, an adult human female, is not 'weaponised'. Men attempting to impose terms like 'cis' upon me whilst appropriating my oppression and the name of woman looks weaponised to me.

I will not submit to this dystopian tyranny. I am a woman. An adult human female. I am not afraid, because I am speaking the truth. I will not say that a man is a woman, because you cannot change your biological sex. I will not say that gender is innate, because it is an artificial social construct designed to impose standards of behaviour on and exert control over women. I will not be silenced. I am Spartacus.

One thing I have seen is the phrase ‘natal women’. I prefer it to cis woman because it refers to born sex, with no assumptions about gender (which is distinct from sex). I think also there was never cis men talked about, only cis women. So, it was an othering of women.

Natal women, however, also implies that there are other kind of women, that womanhood can be acquired. When de Beauvoir said one is not born a woman, one becomes a woman, she did not mean one could simply don female gendered accoutrements, but that female socialisation shapes female lives. Thus, it is not just being born a woman (natal woman) but the process of growing up as a female which makes a woman. Hence, natal woman as a signifier only goes so far.

A further problem is that I have only seen the phrase natal women used for those born female, not natal males. Natal males are all those born male, of course, but they are either quite simply men (no signifier necessary) or trans women, which signifies they are of the born male sex, but take on the gendered identities associated with the female sex.

I read that gender is constitutive of and consistently remaking power relations, both between men and women, and within sex categories. This seems to me to be true here. The power hierarchy is upheld as women can no longer speak of their biological reality, and male hierarchies are also upheld (men expressing hegemonic masculinity; trans women expressing a feminine way of being male).

If this is not a way of upholding power structures, why are women not able to hold their own reality as distinct? It is not saying trans people do not have rights or their own distinct identities, it is simply saying that they are not the same - in fact, they are set in opposition (with a hierarchy in operation).

No-one has to agree with me; but in a democracy, the fact that a section of the population is being effectively gagged is very worrying.

Great analysis of the language around the debate. Both posts.

Justine Roberts is on public record saying that despite the fact that even discussing the issue is considered transphobic, and her advertisers have been targeted, she will take the advertising hit and allow free speech.

There will be some anti women people working at MNHQ, but I genuinely believe Justine isn't one of them.

She went on public record. She didn't have to.

She spelled it out. She didn't have to.

She does not charge the 12 million women who come on here.

She is constantly fielding lawsuits. She does not want to be financially penalised through a lawsuit.

The fact is that what the women here say, will be very important. It will influence decisions, not just at HQ, but overall.

This isthe temperature check. This is public opinion. You are taking a poll from 12 million women. This IS it.

Every time someone posts an irrefutable, undeniable comment, it helps.

Every time an expert points out the law, it helps.

Every time a transactivist comes on and fails to support their argument, it helps.

Just remember who you are talking to. It's not the person ahead of you on the thread.

It's HQ, it's MPs, it's the general public.

Countless people.

The mods and management need to discuss among themselves and decide if they are hosting Feminism chat or a formal debate on whether women are entitled to any rights at all.

They have to use synthetic lubrication as, you know,

That's factually incorrect. Depending on the skill of the surgeon the new vagina wall can become mucousal so that synthetic lubricatiin might be unnecessary

Mumsnet convinced me because of the quality of discourse and really the irrefutability of the argument. And there was no abuse. That really stood out.

Pseudovagina

This was the response to Justine Roberts and Mumsnet public statement in The Times article back in April:

"What’s worrying to me is the thought-police action around speech and the shutting down of the right to be able to disagree and immediately labelling it as transphobic,” Roberts said.

The threats are the latest move in a campaign by transgender activists to inhibit discussion of potential legal changes that would allow people born male to self-identify as women"

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3222471-AIBU-to-be-extremely-proud-of-Justine-Roberts-Mumsnet-right-now

Depending on the skill of the surgeon the new vagina wall can become mucousal so that synthetic lubricatiin might be unnecessary

Is that when a section of the colon is used, or is there another new method?

Am I allowed to repeat this?

What’s worrying to me is the thought-police action around speech and the shutting down of the right to be able to disagree and immediately labelling it as transphobic,” Roberts said.

Can I repeat it again and again?

"What’s worrying to me is the thought-police action around speech and the shutting down of the right to be able to disagree and immediately labelling it as transphobic,” Roberts said.
*

What’s worrying to me is the thought-police action around speech and the shutting down of the right to be able to disagree and immediately labelling it as transphobic,” Roberts said.

And they ask calmly yet persistently for facts and information from those who are stating this, to help us understand the reasoning.

Having seen how Mumsnet HQ is being barracked when they give their reasoning, do you really think a trans ally is going to answer questions about their reasoning?

What’s worrying to me is the thought-police action around speech and the shutting down of the right to be able to disagree and immediately labelling it as transphobic,” Roberts said.

What’s worrying to me is the thought-police action around speech and the shutting down of the right to be able to disagree and immediately labelling it as transphobic,” Roberts said.

What’s worrying to me is the thought-police action around speech and the shutting down of the right to be able to disagree and immediately labelling it as transphobic,” Roberts said.

Is that when a section of the colon is used, or is there another new method?

Scrotal graft.

So far as I am aware, no surgeon in the UK does a colon graft, although the ileum might be used but numbers are very small

What’s worrying to me is the thought-police action around speech and the shutting down of the right to be able to disagree and immediately labelling it as transphobic,” Roberts said.