A woman is an adult female human

[Pratchet]

Of the sex whose reproductive role is to gestate and bear young.

Let's just say this while we still can. Because it's true, and however many people try to make us lie about it, or remain silent, it will always be true.

In times of universal deceit, speaking the truth is a revolutionary act.

It hurts MY feelings to see 'transwomen are women'. It damages MY mental health to see that, it makes ME feel erased and MY identity feel destroyed. I have a voice and I deserve that voice. WE deserve it.

I am Spartacus. A woman is an adult female human. Sex is binary, immutable and defined by reproductive role.

If you report me, or get me banned you shoot the messenger. Because this is true and will always be true. And this day, this day of a lie, I WILL say it.

#Spartacus

Thanks for the drink, I needed that. I will be more careful about when and if I post in future.

You have to hand it to the TRAs, they've managed to persuade a successful women-led business which makes its money out of selling the spending power of women to its advertisers to start the process of silencing the women who are their very product and income-generators. Without the voices of women there is no Mumsnet. The TRAs have managed to persuade Mumsnet to eat itself.

I think the pressure is more likely lobbied / political / legal power rather than connected to advertising. Just an opinion though.

Yes, and it's interesting that they've targetted a women led business that has a majority women user base, over some of the sites that are male dominant and that freely allow some truly hideous transphobic threads and posts.
Can't think why this site was targetted......

AnneEyhtMeyer bloody hell..that's food for thought

I was wondering a little earlier about possible advertising connotations. Then decided well, this isn't the only board on MN.

If the nuisance of the Feminism board go it can get back to being all sweetness and light. The occasional AIBU squabbles to give the DM news fodder but, nothing too out of the ordinary besides that.

Albeit I suppose women who've left MN over this may no longer use linked advertisers or may even have written to them.

Hard to know.

Agree 100% with the OP. I worry: I feel as if the progress women have made in the last century is poised to go into reverse. I feel diminished, increasingly invisible and unheard. I regard organisations such as Stonewall, which was once a liberator, as the enemy of womankind. But apparently my fears and concerns count for nothing.

@Seafret - you've articulated so beautifully so many of the points I try to make. Thank you to you and all the WOMEN, MEN and TRANS FOLK who've taken time to post and share their thoughts.

Paris Lees just got a free pass on the News Channel?

I have nothing new to add but want to stand up and be counted. Sex is not choice, it's fact... science .... biology. And it's a sad day when we won't accept science - not because we think it's incorrect, but because we decide it simply doesn't suit us.

Transwomen are (according to stonewall)
Male transsexuals and Male transvestites (erotic transvestites gets sexually excited by the dressing, a social transvestite simply feels more comfortable in those clothes)

Women are female adult humans (& many of the ones on FWR are awesome )

(I’m zibbidoo under a name change)

I’ve found this thread extremely heartening. It absolutely helps to know that when I’m out there, in the big wide, fighting this shit, that there are other people thinking the same and doing the same. It helps to know there is (just about) still somewhere I can come for respite from the constant TRA agenda being shoved down my throat at every turn. This thread is absolutely in the spirit of the site that MN once was.

Hmm, my female socialisation is kicking in, so I can't resist giving Glitch the same advice I've given in the past to people on the GC side. Remember you're talking to the lurkers.

So "TWAW" - precisely no, nul, nil, lurkers won over.

"You already know the answer to that..." - precisely no, nul, nil, lurkers won over.

"Here, have a link to a google search page for TWAW..." - precisely no, nul, nil, lurkers won over.

"You're all a bunch of horrid bigots..." - precisely no, nul, nil, lurkers won over.

If that Pink News survey suggesting only a tiny minority of people actually believe TWAW, you'd better up your game, because you're failing woefully at the moment.

"Spirit of the site MN once was"

Sadly yes and I'm bloody furious about it

It seems that saying things that people without vaginas don't like to hear, whilst in possession of a vagina, is now 'hate speech' and must be silenced.
In other words women must be quiet.
How sad to see that even a site FOR MOTHERS is colluding with this bullshit.

Can I just point out one teeny tiny leetle issue with the TWAW mantra.

You may think that you are a jolly-hockey-sticks, back-slapping ally. It may fill your heart with gladness that you are on the 'right side of history' in your super-inclusiveness and cement a framework of 'never question anyone about their gender' and all that.

But TW are Men. Medically, if a doctor is unable to treat a heart attack presenting in an obvious male; under the guise of 'inclusiveness' - they could kill them. If a TW is on a list as a female, they will get called for smear that they do not need, whilst the prostate cancer is growing inside them.

In the spirit of fairness, nobody seems to give a shit that this could actually be lethal to trans people; if we erase their history and play pretend - particularly when kids that are in the system now are literally blocking their own puberty; in the future the doctors won't be able to tell and thus won't be able to override the 'inclusive' mandate that the government may legislate for.

Trans people are trans people. Being up front and honest could save their actual lives. Pretending - is going to prove fatal at some point. In a plethora of ways.

Biology is not bigotry.

The government will live to regret this and I can predict there will be 'lessons learnt'. No shit, Sherlock.

The sad thing is Fermats that most of us would dearly love to examine the opposing argument and alternative definitions. Being fans of critical thought and all that.

The fact that none are presented makes me think that there is nothing to examine. When we are talking about fundamental change to society 'you're unkind' isn't good enough.

I also agree with the OP.

@fermats

I am a lurker. I posted a few times months ago and again today.

I came out of lurking to add my name to the pro-trans side of the debate and to show that there are women here that aren't exclusionary.

Well, yes, I'd realised that, Dragon. They have to keep chanting TWAW like some sort of new age mantra because there's nothing of any substance underneath it. Anyone thinking of spinning the prayer wheels in passing in the Handmaid's Tale?

Still, it's quite fun to point out just how silly it would all look to a third party.

GC feminist: sex matters for these carefully thought out reasons, and doing away with sex-based protections for women's rights will have these bad consequences (series of carefully thought out, cogently argued points).

Other side: TWAW... you must chant that along with us or you are a bigot and on the wrong side of history. Err, that's all I've got...

Words being weaponised??? Dangerous, terrifying words like 'woman'. Sweet Jesus. For shame MN. What the fuck is going on?

Kate But when the whole point of the thread is to get posters to say the same words over and over, that's inflammatory.

You've got this wrong, Kate. Lots of people sharing a view and being able to say so is important. It's a recognition that the gaslighters and manipulators are lying; that there is NOT mass consensus that TWAW. We are absolutely allowed to gather and register our opinion and the fact that you don't want us to is sinister. You started with words we can't use; now you're telling us when we can use the remaining ones. Crushing. Our. Voices.

I came out of lurking to add my name to the pro-trans side of the debate and to show that there are women here that aren't exclusionary

I mean that is great - but what IS your argument? Did you manage to post it?

What is the process that men go through to 'become' a 'woman' that you can recognise as such?

What Is that 'transition'?

Is saying it enough for you to totally believe them?

How does one tell a 'genuine' trans person from someone lying?

What is the difference in your mind?

I'd love to hear this side of the 'debate' as so far I've heard 'no debate'.

I said on another thread that I am beginning to think that the goal of this is to erase women with their messy inconvenient biology, shove them out of public life, and replace them with 'women' who won't do such disgusting things as menstruating, gestating, giving birth and lactating. Misogynistic to the core. It's a shame a site for mothers is colluding in their erasure.

I am an adult human female. I have spent at least one day of every month doubled over with a cramping uterus. I bleed ever month. I have gestated 3 fetuses. I have pushed 2 babies out through my vaginas and had my abdomen sliced open to retrieve the third. I breastfed all 3.
I bear the scars.

I will no longer be told that my female biological experiences are worthless and that I am a costume for men to wear.

Still woman and still Spartacus.

Cross posted with you Glitch.

So why (beyond a laudable, but slightly incoherent, desire to be nice) do you believe transwomen literally are women (not legally to be treated as women, given certain legal hurdles have been crossed, and with certain carefully argued exclusions in a small limited range of areas where biological sex matters - a position I personally don't have a problem with - but absolutely, literally women in exactly the same way I am a woman)?

Come on, give it a shot. Persuade a few fellow lurkers here. There must be something I, Paris Lees, Danielle Muscato, etc all have in common that makes us all women. There must be a reason why it's totally fair for Laurel Hubbard to take place in the women's world weightlifting championships, or for Hannah Mouncey to play Aussie rules football. There must be a reason why it's perfectly okay to imprison Jessica Winfield (convicted rapist - an offence which requires a penis) in a women's prison. There must be a reason why it's perfectly okay for a couple of homeless women to be thrown out of a homeless shelter and back onto the streets for bigotry because they weren't comfortable sharing showers with a transwoman.

You must have some sort of answer. What is it?

I was agreeing with you Fermats but don't think I worded it so well! I like the points that you made.

Glitched, genuinely glad that you delurked. For a discussion I need to understand where you're coming from. Please, please complete the sentence 'the definition of 'woman' is...'. or answer my previous question: is there just no definition? Thanks.