A woman is an adult female human

[Pratchet]

Of the sex whose reproductive role is to gestate and bear young.

Let's just say this while we still can. Because it's true, and however many people try to make us lie about it, or remain silent, it will always be true.

In times of universal deceit, speaking the truth is a revolutionary act.

It hurts MY feelings to see 'transwomen are women'. It damages MY mental health to see that, it makes ME feel erased and MY identity feel destroyed. I have a voice and I deserve that voice. WE deserve it.

I am Spartacus. A woman is an adult female human. Sex is binary, immutable and defined by reproductive role.

If you report me, or get me banned you shoot the messenger. Because this is true and will always be true. And this day, this day of a lie, I WILL say it.

#Spartacus

@JustineMumsnet @MNHQ

Various users, myself included have repeatedly contacted you via threads in FWR, Site Stuff and directly to talk about brigading, harvesting, coercive control, abusive tactics, trolling and other co-ordinated strategies used by activists be they environmentalists, MRA's or radicalisers.

We contacted you because we have experience of this world. We work in tech, in security, data management, finance, HR, brand management, legislative bodies. We know how it works. We offered help and advice, support and knowledge that would otherwise cost thousands of pounds.

You did not want to talk to us. You carried on until the next breach - Interngate. Users had to pressure you into dealing with that in compliance with your legal responsibilty to your users, employees, advertisers and commercial partners.

We offered again. You did not engage. Which leaves us here, now.

There are thousands that would like to take this site down - MRA's may be objectionable, but they are exceptionally skilled. And they share their knowledge and numbers with any who they can temporarily ally with to further their aims.

Gin is not going to fix this.

#TimesUp

Biology is not bigotry

Mumsnet can't appease. It thinks appeasement will save it. FWR is not long for this world.

Our own government and the Ministry of Justice doesn’t believe TW are Women - right now they are fighting a legal case from a Male transgender ex-prisoner who was quite rightly housed in a Male prison.

Woman isn't being expanded to include men.

It's being expanded to include biological males. Who will never be on the receiving end of the social, structural and physical oppression that exists for biological females.

So excuse me if I don't accept your woke definition. It serves no use whatsoever, other than to continue to oppress me.

@Bertrand

You know perfectly well what the argument is. A trans person should be recognised as the gender they identify with.

Rather than excluding women because they don't look like women, we include them by accepting that they are what they claim they are.

It's better that a guilty person goes free than an innocent person is locked up.

Just because transwomen don't experience the 'oppression of biological women' doesn't mean they aren't women.

They may not be the same as you but they are still women.

@Glitched what makes a person born a boy become a woman?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5913841/amp/Equalities-minister-vows-press-ahead-plans-make-changing-gender-easier.html?__twitter_impression=true

Glitches: repeating 'you know perfectly well' is silly when you don't know yourself.

lol it's not because they don't look like women. They don't look like women because they aren't women.

Just because transwomen don't experience the 'oppression of biological women' doesn't mean they aren't women.

Yes it does. You remove my ability to talk, debate, discuss, fight my female oppression when you change the definition of my words. Hashtag nodebate my arse.

I'm with you BertrandRussell. I'd be happy to have my mind changed, quite honestly.

No they are not the same and they are not women, as in human adult female. I will never accept the lie.

Neither the GRA or the EqA support the statement TWAW.

The GRA refers to people having an “acquired gender” and the EqA talks about “gender reassignment”

So legally TW are not W they have either acquired or reassigned their gender. The law does not provide for a sex change.

I have no problem with choosing a new gender and being afforded human rights. I do have a problem with that being conflated with being afforded the birth-rights of an oppressed sex class

Women are oppressed because of our biology. Female biology is the very root cause of our oppression

If women cannot define ourselves, if we cannot define our oppression, then we cannot fight against misogyny and sexism.

Speaking out about that is not “weaponizing” our biology.

Speaking out about the erasure of women is not “weaponizing” our biology.

Insisting on being able to define ourselves and our oppression is not “weaponizing” our biology.

If you don't believe the word woman defines the distinct group of adult human females, why bother with a solidarity thread for those who do? Why not create your own solidarity thread with the definition of woman you have yet to provide and see how it does? I'm quite happy to allow others to have solidarity threads of their own without disrupting them. Have at it!

Nope.
They may take strong hormones, they may have rudimentary genitals formed surgically , they may use all the surgical implements (stretchers etc) to keep the orifice open and use synthetic lubrication.
None of that makes them a woman.
Biology is not bigotry!!!

Woman isn't being expanded to include men. It can be expanded to include women that are trans.

If it does, it includes both sexes. And then it doesn’t mean woman anymore. We already have a word for that, and it’s ‘people.’

The word woman has a meaning. It has a defined meaning in society and in science and in the law.

If we muck around with the societal one well that’s a pita.
We can’t muck around with the scientific one because humans cannot change sex. so woman means what it always have
If we muck around with the legal one, our sex based protections are gone.

So no. The definition stays as is.

I mean....I can call myself a unicorn.
It doesn't make me one.
Not even if I surgically attach a horn to my forehead...
I'd just be a woman with a horn....

A trans person should be recognised as the gender they identify with.

That's fine. So long as we're clear that gender and sex are not the same thing, and that sex is a protected characteristic and that where there are sex-based exclusions these are exactly that.

So - trans people should most certainly be able to dress according to their preferred gender. They should not be discriminated against because their gender and sex don't align.

@Datun is one of the most clear-thinking, eloquent people I've ever read on an internet forum. Anyone needing an unemotional preceptive grasp of the issue who doesn't have time to read the whole 22 chuffing pages and more, read Datun's posts. They're the opposite of inflammatory. They're soothing in their level-headed, transparent sanity.

Just because transwomen don't experience the 'oppression of biological women' doesn't mean they aren't women.

They may not be the same as you but they are still women.

But glitched, if they don't experience the same biological disadvantages that women do, if they don't have any of the medical issues that women do, if they aren't in the running for any of the civil rights like maternity leave, that women are, but they do need the services, medical and social to apply to their biology, and do have unique experiences, then what on earth is the point?

What is the point of calling them women? If, by your own admission, they have nothing in common with women? But they do have unique issues of their own?

Many women are of the opinion that transwomen see women in a certain 'way', and it is that 'way' that they want. That they yearn for.

They find out this 'way' is not really a reality and get angry when women point this out. And make it clear. They're certainly not interested in the actual experience of being a woman.

Because it's irrelevant to them. What transwoman gives a fuck about endometriosis? Or is invested in oral contraception campaigns?

They seem to view womanhood is some kind of aspirational club, or past time.

It's incredibly alienating.

Yeah, but... trans women ARE women though

Is that all you've got?

Clearly that really is all they have.

Glitch, I'm really glad that you are still posting. Thank you.

I still don't see a definition of the word woman that includes transwomen. Can you complete the sentence, "the definition of 'woman' is..."? So that we know who is coming into our single sex spaces and services?

Or is there genuinely no definition because it's all about identity? I'd strongly disagree if that were the case but admire the honesty of anyone prepared to say it.

I'm a dog person. I don't really like cats.

Now that I've expressed an alternative opinion to the majority of Mumsnetters, am I free to agree with Pratchet that biology matters?