A woman is an adult female human

[Pratchet]

Of the sex whose reproductive role is to gestate and bear young.

Let's just say this while we still can. Because it's true, and however many people try to make us lie about it, or remain silent, it will always be true.

In times of universal deceit, speaking the truth is a revolutionary act.

It hurts MY feelings to see 'transwomen are women'. It damages MY mental health to see that, it makes ME feel erased and MY identity feel destroyed. I have a voice and I deserve that voice. WE deserve it.

I am Spartacus. A woman is an adult female human. Sex is binary, immutable and defined by reproductive role.

If you report me, or get me banned you shoot the messenger. Because this is true and will always be true. And this day, this day of a lie, I WILL say it.

#Spartacus

I'm astonished, I really am MNHQ.

The only "weaponising" I've seen thus far here, is the wail of TWAW and the use of the word CIS, incredibly offensive.

I'm a woman, I'll always be one. I am biologically a woman, even if I tell everyone that I self ID as Eric Cantona.

And a piece of pape,r no matter how legal it looks, does not make anyone a biological woman. It's a legal construct, not a biological fact.

I've had enough of the self ID shit now, any empathy has gone.

I'm not crying though, I am mad as hell.

Penny Mordaunt is someone's toy poodle. She has no idea what the word " consultation" means, and is a disgrace to the female sex.

What will the term woman mean if the definition of a woman is changed to include men? What is wrong with the term transwoman? It appeared to work very well until recently.

I refuse to be silenced.

Transwomen are of course welcome here. We do have a few regular transwomen posters - they have as one might expect a range of opinions on the matter.

Exclusionary - now that’s again a word to think about. A single sex space for example excludes males. We have those spaces for a good reason. Safety, basically. That’s why we want to keep them.
There are sometimes very good reasons to be exclusionary. Not many times, but the times that there are, its important.

Well, how interesting. This 'inflammatory' thread has been so damaging to the psyche of the vulnerable lobby that pushes for the deletion of 'woman' as a sex definition, that a number of them have arrived on the thread, and stated, without anything to back it up, the slogan 'Transwomen are women'.
We've been told that this sort of thread means that trans people don't have the right of reply and are silenced and feel bad etc.
And yet here they are, familiar names, giving us the benefit of their voices, freely posting. I mean, they're posting ridiculous circular nonsense, but no one is stopping them, and so many women are clearly asking, in frustrated desperation, for an actual debate with them that it is a little like watching an abused woman beg to be told why she is being abused.

Frankly, this is pretty sickening stuff.

So, stating the truth can seem ‘hostile’ .

Too fucking bad.

Biology doesn’t care about hurt feelings and quite frankly, neither do I when it comes to protecting Female human beings and children in general.
I’ve never seen an explanation of TW are Women beyond ‘because they say so’.
Funny how hostility isn’t a problem on say, the AIBU board

The Gender Recognition Act went through Parliament 15 years ago and recognised that trans women are women

They get to be be legally treated as women, and there are exemptions to this, for example single sex spaces.

It does not mean that they have literally changed sex. It’s a legal fiction, it’s poorly worded.

Do you believe humans can actually change sex?

No one is taking the term woman away from you.

Women have certain rights to redress the inherent power dynamic between men and women. To promote women's inclusion both economically and in political representation.

Men commit the overwhelming majority of both sexual and violent crime. As a result, in order to redress that, women are given sex segregation in certain circumstances where they are more vulnerable.

If you decide this is no longer necessary based on the fact that women now includes people from the cohort from whom they are supposed to be segregated, you are taking something away.

You are taking away the gains that they have made over the last 60 years.

Men are the people for whom this doesn't matter. Which is why, they are more than happy to carry on insisting their feelings are more important than women's rights.

Women are the people for whom this does matter, which is why they are resisting it.

Woman isn't being expanded to include men. It can be expanded to include women that are trans.

Trans men are defined as men and trans women as women.

Women who are trans are those who reject 'femininity' and wish to be males.

The only misgiving ive got with #ImSpartacus , is they all got crucified .
Still...in for a penny ....

#ImSpartacus

My first foray into this discussion after growing more horrified over past years.

I am a woman because I was born a girl and I then grew up. I have short hair, hairy legs and I don’t wear high heels. Still, I remain a woman.

My brother was born a boy and then grew up. He is a man now. If he wears a dress, he’s still a man.

I sometimes wish I was born a boy because I hate periods and I hate being objectified by men and all kinds of other things. Those wishes don’t change my sex.

No. The Gender Recognition Act went through Parliament 15 years ago and recognised that trans women are women, reaffirming what was already accepted. Trans women have been women for at least 20 years. You might personally not have noticed, but they have been, so "woman' and" women" are their words too.

I thought you'd say that, which is why I used the word socially.

Transwomen have not been women at all. And it's really tedious to constantly conflate being a woman, with being legally a woman.

Women are objecting to the encroachment on their sex, which started with a legal fiction, and has resulted in pretending that chromosomes don't dictate your sex, men can be lesbians and that reproductive function is not a necessary component of sex classification!

If you'd like to point me to anything from 30 years ago, which says that the penis is a female organ and that chromosomes do not dictate your sex, I'll read it.

It's boring for people to come on and say the same things over and over, which everyone on here can refute.

My only consolation is that I have now found out quite how many women are reading this.

Trans men are defined as men and trans women as women

How so? That's not a definition.

Just define 'woman' in a way that includes transwomen. Please.

KateMumsnet - why is it ok to say "transwomen are women" as here on this thread but not "transwomen are men"? Is there equity or not? I do not ask to be rude. I ask because I want to understand how this mismatch is viewed as an equitable stance.

Well said Pratchet!

Woman isn't being expanded to include men.

I have no idea what you're talking about here. Are you saying that male people who identify as feminine are not being expanded to include female people who identify as masculine, or not include male people who identify as non-binary, or male people who identify as cis, or male people who don't identify as cis ? Or perhaps you mean female bodied non-binary people, to expand to include female bodied masculine people.

I have no idea what you're referring to.

You will have to be a lot more clear.

Good point Lang. It's so offensive and upsetting to read 'trans women are women' and especially tnot just to come across it in Active Conversations but on the feminism board.

I am a woman, xx chromosomes, born a woman, my sex was observed not assigned, I gave birth, breast fed my babies, I am a mother, grandmother, daughter and aunt.

Why is saying those facts now a revolutionary act?

I am still Spartacus.

What about men who are not into 'masculinity' but want to remain men. Are they men or are they women?

Can someone define a man for me? As I see it a man is an adult male.

Can someone define a woman for me? As I see it a woman is an adult female.

I understand male and female.

Posters looking for another forum might want to wander over the Gender Critical board on Reddit - mostly US posters, but far lighter moderation

Good point Lang.

I point it out because if feminists are being told to consider the feelings of trans people over the feelings of women, surely transactivists must be told to consider the feelings women over the feelings of trans people. This would be an equitable stance.

Censorship consideration is not a one-way street. Unless you're being sexist about it, of course.

It is so freuareating when people refuse to explain how they came to the view that "transwomen are women" I wish somebody would because I really want to understand. I am the most trendy lefty politically correct snowflake I know, and this is a subject where I feel emotionally that I should be on the side my intellect tells me I can't be. I want someone to explain it so I can change sides!

The mantra is weak

I am Spartacus. A woman is adult female human. It is that simple.

If people can't say transwomen are women, and neither can they say transwomen are men, there is no debate.

Civil or otherwise.

Suddenly #NoDebate making an awful lot of sense.

Despite Justine publicly asserting that even having this discussion is deemed transphobic. Something she disagreed with and was prepared to take the hit.

I loved you for that @Justinemumsnet