A woman is an adult female human

[Pratchet]

Of the sex whose reproductive role is to gestate and bear young.

Let's just say this while we still can. Because it's true, and however many people try to make us lie about it, or remain silent, it will always be true.

In times of universal deceit, speaking the truth is a revolutionary act.

It hurts MY feelings to see 'transwomen are women'. It damages MY mental health to see that, it makes ME feel erased and MY identity feel destroyed. I have a voice and I deserve that voice. WE deserve it.

I am Spartacus. A woman is an adult female human. Sex is binary, immutable and defined by reproductive role.

If you report me, or get me banned you shoot the messenger. Because this is true and will always be true. And this day, this day of a lie, I WILL say it.

#Spartacus

There is a philosophical difference between our perspectives

They aren't perspectives. One is an a priori and empirical truth, and one is a provably false opinion.

I’m a bit confused @Pratchet - I understood the term “trans men” to mean AFAB and “trans women” to mean AMAB. Trans identifying male = AMAB and trans identifying female = AFAB. Am I correct or incorrect in assuming this? I’ll change the terms I use if I’m wrong so please feel free to correct me if I am :)

I also want to say in response to @Sarahar and others accusing us of being anti-trans by stating en masse what we know: your accusation is straight out of the MRA playbook. #metoo was accused of being "anti-man" when thousands of women spoke their truths about male sexual aggression.

Silencing women who speak their truths is misogyny.

Anybody who's upset by female biology would be best advised to avoid a site called 'Mumsnet'

lolol

“HTH”

It really didn’t. Please, provide some evidence for this. You are proving the very first point I made on this thread.

Orlando - you seem to be using 'transman' where most of us would use 'transwoman'.
Transmen are female, transwomen are male is the normal meaning, aren't they?

A Mumsnet with no threads that could upset a random transwoman trying to live their life is simply not going to happen. Because there are some perfectly nice random transwomen who are distressed by the reminder that female bodies exist and are different from theirs. Exactly the same justification would have you banning talk of menstruation and pregnancy fgs. If that is the route you want to go down, how long till that is on the table?

Hey Ford: transgender males believe they are females. Transgender females believe they are males.

those words are being weaponised on this thread,

You can't really possibly think that can you?

Women can't say they are, you know, women in case someone who has gender dysphoria happens to read this thread and it upsets them due to their cognitive dissonance.

Fuck me.

sorry, here is the evidence

words are being weaponised on this thread

OMG. Kate, I honestly don't know what to say. You honestly believe that women sharing an assertion of their womanhood is weaponising something? I don 't know how to disagree with this without breaking guidelines but I find this genuinely horrifying to read from a staffer on a women's forum. This is not me being aggressive, rude or rebellious in a guidelines-breaking way: this is me being shocked to the absolute core.

cannot but feel hostile to a trans person

I'll ask you again - what about creating an environment that feels hostile to women? Where is the equity?

I know right
Someone's avin' a larf

banning talk of menstruation and pregnancy fgs. If that is the route you want to go down, how long till that is on the table?

Yes this^^

I don't menstruate and I can't get pregnant - what about my feelings?

Whoops sorry Errol!! That'll teach me to watch fb and post at the same time!!! You are, of course, right!

hont

Do you believe humans can change sex?

We do have a word for women that aren't trans. Cis
Just stating 'No they aren't women' is the same as saying black people can't be English

No - I am not CIS I don't do made up labels. I am a woman. No CIS on any of my documents or ID.

No - stating no they aren't women isn't the same as saying black people aren't English. One has nothing at all to do with the other.

I dont benefit from the privilege that Self-IDs do here via being born male and white.

Find another comparison and don't try to co-opt our oppression, and the microaggressions we experience in this society on a very regular basis. Which include institutionalised and establishment racism that can actually end lives. It's not a game.

SIL is a Transwoman. You can't tell, at all, that she was born male. She experiences racism and slurs - all discrimination based on her race.

Bored of racists forever trying to co-opt is into their shit. Fight your own battles and leave us out of it. You're not our allies and never will be, even if you pretend well.

God save me from Liberals...

Why are so many people on this site so obsessed with trans people? Who cares? Let people be who they want to be, life is short. Be Kind, be Happy.

(also, if for one moment you genuinely believe that a man would go through the whole process of transition to go into a women's bathroom to be inappropriate you are off your head)

Thanks for clarifying @Pratchet :)

Mumsnet, you have exacerbated this by trying to close it down. Any discussion of this issue will result in the same number of people taking the view that sex is biological not gendered. As trans people who disagree are incapable of presenting a logical fact based alternative they will always demand discussion is stopped claiming it's 'hostile' and transphobia.

As ever, Datun has nailed it.

We do have a word for women that aren't trans. Cis.

Well in your world how does that actually work?

Say you need to refer to what I call women. In your world, you would have to refer to cis women and transmen, and then how do you include those who are non binary? If you said non-binary, you would have to say non-binary women. Well what do you mean by the word woman? It could be a man. Or does it mean adult human female, if it is mentioned after the word non-binary? Complicated, eh?

And what is the reason for having to refer to at least four different categories?

In my world, you just refer to women. Because it only has one definition, and that is a description of biological reproductive function.

It doesn't refer to culture, social status, appearance. It's not a judgement. It works perfectly.

This problem has arisen because in your world, woman means something else. It is taken to mean feminine.

Deciding that the word woman means feminine has set up a whole load of problems, that can only be solved by using 15 words where one will do.

And it doesn't, ever, ever address the structural oppression that women face. It's still there. In all its new words.

kateMumsnet this thread is a response to a very public declaration made in our parliament. We are entitled to respond to and discuss what has been said. Doing so is not an act of aggression, it’s a response. Our words are not weapons, they are our response. Our words are accurate, you yourself agree the words being used are not the issue. The words are fine. I assume you also agree that it is fine for many, many people to share the same sentiment in response to what was said in parliament? It’s fine for people to feel the same, yes? We can still have feelings? Even if they tally with the feelings of others? So you have no objections to the feelings, or many people feeing them, or the words used to express the feelings, your only objection is to us saying them in the same place at the same time? Is that right? You object to women gathering to discuss their shared feelings on a matter? You, Mumsnet, who created a parenting forum for (mostly) women to come together to support each other by posting in the same place at the same time, are now removing that ability? Can you confirm this is what you are doing?

Wiki editors
Hubble bubble

@Hont1986 lol Germaine Greer comes up as the third search result

Also Google isn’t necessarily a reliable source.

Some scientific evidence would be great though.

Oh wait...

XX = female UNLESS you have a very rare chromosome disorder

XY = male

Even intersex people have these chromosomes.

Science > ideology

@Camsie30

The point is that men won't have to "go through the whole process of transition". The aim is for men to simply be able to proclaim they feel like a woman (indeed possibly only only some days of the week) and therefore they should be treated as a woman in everything they do.

Including competing in womens sports, being naked and sleeping in womens only areas (e.g. youth hostels - YHA current policy is if you say you feel like a woman you are welcome to sleep and undress in women only dorms) and have the benefit of the very hard worn policies that women have to protect and benefit them due to their biology.