A woman is an adult female human

[Pratchet]

Of the sex whose reproductive role is to gestate and bear young.

Let's just say this while we still can. Because it's true, and however many people try to make us lie about it, or remain silent, it will always be true.

In times of universal deceit, speaking the truth is a revolutionary act.

It hurts MY feelings to see 'transwomen are women'. It damages MY mental health to see that, it makes ME feel erased and MY identity feel destroyed. I have a voice and I deserve that voice. WE deserve it.

I am Spartacus. A woman is an adult female human. Sex is binary, immutable and defined by reproductive role.

If you report me, or get me banned you shoot the messenger. Because this is true and will always be true. And this day, this day of a lie, I WILL say it.

#Spartacus

This is shutting down women and their right to free speech MNHQ. What about all the threads on the other side of the fence, you don't shut them down because they are inflammatory?! Or is that because the people who may become upset by them are only women?!

Our voice has as much value, we are equal and a trans man is NOT a woman.

Could someone PM me details of the other place please!?! I don't think I can support MN anymore, much as it pains me to say it.

@Datun

We are actually talking about women's rights and the very definition of the word woman changing.

But aren't allowed to say what our definition is, and that of the rest of the world!!

Stop it.

Datun, really truly we are NOT preventing this from being said. If you used any of the words in the OP as part of another discussion, in the course of making your point, they would be allowed to stand because they "discuss biology and scientific evidence".

I really would ask everyone here to take on board the fact that it's really not the words in themselves. The problem is that those words are being weaponised on this thread, which implicitly calls on posters to repeat them to the point where the volume cannot but feel hostile to a trans person who came across it in Active. Not a TRA, just any individual trans person trying to live their life.

the fundamental disagreement as i see it is that one side wants to use the word woman to talk about gender and the other side wants to use the word woman to talk about about sexed bodies.

this could be solved if we could use different words which both sides were happy with.

Sergio, so sorry to hear about your recent diagnosis. How brace if you to post on this thread. Women unite.

Brave of you Sergio!

We do have a word for women that aren't trans. Cis.

Well in your world how does that actually work?

Say you need to refer to what I call women. In your world, you would have to refer to cis women and transmen, and then how do you include those who are non binary? If you said non-binary, you would have to say non-binary women. Well what do you mean by the word woman? It could be a man. Or does it mean adult human female, if it is mentioned after the word non-binary? Complicated, eh?

And what is the reason for having to refer to at least four different categories?

In my world, you just refer to women. Because it only has one definition, and that is a description of biological reproductive function.

It doesn't refer to culture, social status, appearance. It's not a judgement. It works perfectly.

This problem has arisen because in your world, woman means something else. It is taken to mean feminine.

Deciding that the word woman means feminine has set up a whole load of problems, that can only be solved by using 15 words where one will do.

And it doesn't, ever, ever address the structural oppression that women face. It's still there. In all its new words.

I genuinely don't understand how the majority of issues discussed across the whole board are ones that effect XX women, but yet we can't say that we are women?

Then you're in good company, DearSergio, because it doesn't make sense to the rest of us either!

this could be solved if we could use different words which both sides were happy with

So who gets to own the word 'woman'. Is it women?

@glitch nice false analogy you have there. English people are English because they are British nationals born in England. Skin colour doesn't even enter that definition. Women are adult human females, adult human males are not adult human females.

problem is that those words are being weaponised

Ah .... so we are not supposed to say the words out loud and be fucking proud of them! It's ok for trans women are women being shoved down put throats all the time but he'll fire if we actually say we have vaginas and vulvas and we are women.

Ok folks we can only 'whisper' now.... shut up women shut the fuck up and stop hurting the menz feelz

The dear, departed Shoeless Joe on Twitter used to regularly say this to transactivists he talked to:

There is no objective definition of woman pursuant to which transwomen are women. Prove me wrong.

He did this over the course of several years and not one activist he asked was able to prove him wrong.

Sorry for typos - bit cross

The last time I posted was on this topic months ago and we had the same arguments then.

There is a philosophical difference between our perspectives.

words are being weaponised

Yes, they are, and we gravely object to that. Women do not consent to the word 'woman' being redefined.

Women should not articulate the material reality of being female in case a trans person comes across it and gets upset?

That's a real head scratch for me. I can't see that's awfully robust, to be honest.

Feminity can bog off. So can the Word C.I.S. (am I allowed to say that on MUMSnet of all places.

There is a philosophical difference between our perspective

You mean a biological difference ?

"As I said earlier. We all know the arguments on both sides. It's just that we don't agree."
I really, really don't. I understand "a woman is an adult human of the class that produces eggs". I understand that trans women exist and are absolutely entitled to every human and legal right that anyone else has and to be allowed to live their lives peacefully and unharrased, and that anyone who tries to stop them should be prosecuted and punished. I donot understand how trans women can be actual women.

'The problem is that those words are being weaponised on this thread'

The word woman has already been weaponised and not by us. And now as a result our word is being taken away from us.

glitched

Do you believe humans can change sex?

Although I want to watch NCIS

Glitches we have a perfectly good word for an adult female, born female. That word is 'WOMAN' and over my dead body will anyone take that away from us. I am NOT a 'ciswoman', I am a bloody WOMAN!!!

I have no problem with transmen, everyone has the right to a good life but they are not women and the blindness people have talked themselves into astounds me.

I am Spartacus.