A woman is an adult female human

[Pratchet]

Of the sex whose reproductive role is to gestate and bear young.

Let's just say this while we still can. Because it's true, and however many people try to make us lie about it, or remain silent, it will always be true.

In times of universal deceit, speaking the truth is a revolutionary act.

It hurts MY feelings to see 'transwomen are women'. It damages MY mental health to see that, it makes ME feel erased and MY identity feel destroyed. I have a voice and I deserve that voice. WE deserve it.

I am Spartacus. A woman is an adult female human. Sex is binary, immutable and defined by reproductive role.

If you report me, or get me banned you shoot the messenger. Because this is true and will always be true. And this day, this day of a lie, I WILL say it.

#Spartacus

What about future 'I believe you' threads, where we post to support and show solidarity with those women who have been raped or assaulted?
These consist of women stating the same phrase over and over again. Will these be banned too?

I've never seen an argument in support of the assertion that 'transwomen are women' which made any sense.

I have seen posts by transwomen who know they are male, who know that however much they yearn to be women they are not and cannot be women. They do make sense.

You're all acting ignorant of the argument. The reasoning why trans women are women has been stated a million times all across the internet.

Come on then, state it here one more time, what difference does it make?

Transwomen are not women. If they were, they wouldn't be transwomen.

You're all acting ignorant of the argument. The reasoning why trans women are women has been stated a million times all across the internet.

No it hasn't, ever.
And that's why women keep saying they are adult human females. Because the mantra is just transwomen are women, with absolutely nothing to back that up.

In fact was it Shon or India who made the attempt? And it included something along the lines of shifting constellations.

Yeah, but... trans women ARE women though. Most people believe it

On what basis? Come on now!

MNHQ I am horrified again.

I'd like to know two things.

1. Are there threats against MN? Because this is the only way I can understand why the decision is being made to censor language in FWR boards.

If yes, surely this points towards TRA aggressors being the problem rather than a group of women wanting to hang on to their status of women. If no, why are you moderating biological women's valid fears? Surely we're not going to be expected to relearn biology basics in order to not hurt the feelings of a tiny percentage of the population who arguably aren't as oppressed and at risk of murder and suicide as we're told.

1. At what point will you draw the line?

It's clear in other social media that anything that refers to female biology, and the risks women face because of their biology, are considered by some to be trans exclusive, and those same people appear to have a free rein to threaten, doxx and bully those who speak out about it. I'm talking things like rape, the two women killed per week at the hands of their male partners, female babies aborted/abandoned in some areas of the world, FGM, and onto the more mundane daily life stuff of biological women like periods, pregnancy, gynaecological issues, birth injuries, infertility etc. So when these biological males have got their way, and we cannot be honest about their male status, where will you draw the line when they are trying to control the language around these issues, because they are also trans exclusive, given that they affect females only. We've already seen CRUK leave out the all important descriptor of "woman" in their info about cervical cancer. At some point will you crumble to pressure and moderate the boards to exclude words that might hurt trans women? Where will the line be drawn? Because if you bow to the pressure now, it will continue.

I am so disappointed in mumsnet right now. I can't believe that a website set up by women for a primarily female membership group is complicit in erasing what it is to be female. You literally couldn't make this up.

A recent survey confirms that most people know their biology. Biology is not bigotry.

''But a new poll for PinkNews found that only 18 per cent of voters, and 13 per cent of Conservative voters, agree with updating the Gender Recognition Act to reflect more informed attitudes towards being transgender.''

www.indy100.com/article/transgender-rules-reform-gender-recognition-act-2004-dysphoria-theresa-may-8427476

Yeah, but... trans women ARE women though
Yeah, but they aren't.

Most people believe it

No they don't. That's why they listen to trans'women' and not women. It's the Y talking.

This is just the dying gasp of bigotry

The reasoning why trans women are women has been stated a million times all across the internet.

In that case, you won't mind posting it one more time for us. They aren't adult human females, so according to what definition of women are they women?

Yeah, but... trans women ARE women though

Is that all you've got?

Glitched "And if you really don't understand what it means how can you claim to be opposed to it?"

I don't know what the gazillions of other people's opinion is on the internet, I also don't know your reasoning. Hence many of us asking you to clarify.

However, I agree with you that I am opposed to the redefinition of "woman" because as a class, my sex is oppressed, and that oppression seems to be growing on a daily basis. Even on MN, the attempts to put women down and make us toe an ever-changing line are growing.

Or these? Much biology. Much hate crime.

I really wish that I was 17 years younger because knowing the way this world has gone, I wouldn't have brought my girls into it. Unless I could've guaranteed having only boys, I wouldn't have allowed myself to get pregnant. I'd rather be childless as their future terrifies me now.

Mumsnet, you are a disgrace to women everywhere. Shame on you!

How is it okay to upset all of us, but we aren't allowed to upset them?

It's a bit like Orwell said:
"All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others", but in this case it's:
"All women are equal, but those that feel like women are more equal".

It's frightening just how right he seems to have been.

Yeah, but... trans women ARE women though. Most people believe it.

Most people used to believe the sun circled the stationary earth. Some still do. And yet, the earth moves.

'For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring', to borrow one of my favourite quotes from Carl Sagan.

Majority rules is your argument? That's it?

Why does it seem to be the case that those individuals expressing opposing beliefs on this matter are failing to support their arguments with evidence?

I have not been here long, granted, but I must say I am disappointed with some of the decisions that have been made by those in charge here. ☹️

I believe biology and scientific facts should always trump any belief or ideology. In the eyes of some people this belief is wrong and means that I am a hateful person, but I am not. I am just very critical of the whole “gender” thing I guess.

Let toys eat toys and clothes be clothes. Get rid of stereotypical boy/girl signs. It’s these stereotypes that, in my humble opinion, lead to young people believing that their bodies are in some way wrong or that they have been born in the wrong one. Stereotypes are very damaging and I worry that we are trying to put people in metaphorical boxes and that we are obsessed with doing so. Gender just means stereotypes. Sex means male or female, or sometimes intersex but that’s completely different to transgender and we shouldn’t compare the two.

Let’s teach children to be happy with who they are and that they shouldn’t change anything about their bodies. #iamspartacus

(sorry for the long post btw)

I can't believe this thread, and that I'm reading it on Mumsnet.

Why are people sending each other PMs by the way, surely MNHQ can and will just read them? So is not secret really.

Wherever this other place is, it's going to be compromised pretty soon. Do you know who the Mods are...? I mean, you do know that they lock threads on here when women talk about being women - which I can't actually see why we aren't entitled to do since every day on Twitter and other boards, bile against women is uttered and there doesn't seem to be anyone saying hmmm, stop repeating yourselves.

I can't think of an explanation as to why in the face of all that, women aren't entitled to be fed up and repeat a mantra against it.

I'm not sure it makes sense any longer to keep Feminism section open. Reminds me a bit of that "ok you women have talked long enough, shut up now I want to watch the telly" kind of thing. There are lots of people out there who don't like women talking.

Such a shame this is all lumped together. I'm anti Self-ID but not anti-Trans.

As a black woman I'm also sick of Self-IDs aiming to co-opt our terms, our struggles, referencing us as if they give a shit what we go through or have ever stood in solidarity with us. As if we are a subset of women and won't be affected by all this. Just fodder for their "right on" soundbites

The entitled arrogance and privilege is astonishing.

I would never say a Transwoman who has transitioned is not a woman. I do believe some of us are born in the wrong body as it were, and if they want to correct that in order to be happy then its their absolute right

But I'm not going to be silly and lie in the emperor's new clothes style, that a man dressed as a woman who thinks he is a woman today, is a woman.

How would I even be able to tell the difference anyway...? They could be a drag queen for all I know.

Let Self-IDs campaign for their own spaces.
According to SIL, who is Trans, she feels endangered by the aggression of the privileged few who want to rule the many on this subject, and are troublemakers. It's not biological women shes bothered by, and I understand entirely why.

Having said all that I don't feel women will come out the losers in this eventually. I'd like to think most people out there have common sense. You can't tell people blue is yellow and force them to believe it, you'll get folks backs up and there'll be a backlash.

Many of us have had to fight for our spaces. Let Self-IDs fight for their own.

I'm thinking about the whole civil rights movement today. It was never about removing people, it was about fighting for human rights, and space. The engineered madness of today, this 'move over so others can take your place' attitude..I can't fathom at all why despite it being so wrong, there's such a huge effort by the many led by the few, to condone it.

How have people been so easily and steadily manipulated? Strange.

FWIW I'm not sure I'd blame MN entirely for all that's happening on this board because it's pretty apparent they're not pulling the strings, they're being controlled and it won't be by a woman that's for sure

*Glitched obviously feels that words and definitions don't matter and anyone can say what they feel. It's all a bit Trump. Bigly so.

Nicely put ford.

Oops I meant key toys BE toys. Toys are not cannibals 😂 must proofread in future!

The bullying and nastiness needs to stop. Claiming reality exists is not nasty. Claiming that others need to believe a load of tosh cos otherwise it's really upsetting and somebody will cry is manipulative bullshit.

Thank you @Pratchet much appreciated! I’m going to give up correcting my typos as I keep failing lol. 😆

Yep, MN are under pressure, and not from women. That's for sure.

I too am very upset and rather shocked at how Penny Mordaunt spoke today. It's clear she's being influenced, but to voice a plain lie... Just incredible.

I have the worst typos on MN! Good company