A woman is an adult female human

[Pratchet]

Of the sex whose reproductive role is to gestate and bear young.

Let's just say this while we still can. Because it's true, and however many people try to make us lie about it, or remain silent, it will always be true.

In times of universal deceit, speaking the truth is a revolutionary act.

It hurts MY feelings to see 'transwomen are women'. It damages MY mental health to see that, it makes ME feel erased and MY identity feel destroyed. I have a voice and I deserve that voice. WE deserve it.

I am Spartacus. A woman is an adult female human. Sex is binary, immutable and defined by reproductive role.

If you report me, or get me banned you shoot the messenger. Because this is true and will always be true. And this day, this day of a lie, I WILL say it.

#Spartacus

You know what the reasoning is for my side of the argument. Does it really need to be stated again?

I don't. I don't know what your definition of 'woman' is. I have never heard a definition of woman which makes any logical sense which is compatible with the statement that 'transwomen are women'.

I came across this, by TheUterati, & I think it bears repeating:

One is male or one is female by virtue of the reproductive class to which ones belongs. Males produce sperm. Females produce ova and bear live young. We are a sexually dimorphic species. Defining males and females thus, in terms of reproductive class, reflects the fact that it is only by virtue of the fact of sexual reproduction that there ARE males and females. The definition of male and female must enable a consistent account of sexual reproduction, if it does not, then the definition is incorrect. Defining males and females thus is consistent with all other mammalian species.

Consider this: all mammalian species sexually reproduce when a male and a female mate. The female conceives, gestates and gives birth. EXCEPT in the human species: the human species sexually reproduces when either a man and a man mate, or a woman and a man mate, or a woman and a woman mate, and either the man or the woman may then conceive, gestate and give birth. The former makes sense. The latter is incoherent, nonsensical and discontinuous with the former. To assert that the latter is true does not reveal a higher level of thinking and sophistication about maleness and femaleness. It reveals unscientific and illogical nonsense.

I don't know what the reasoning is.
Why don't you tell us. Just give a simple definition of woman that includes transwomen.

You know what the reasoning is for my side of the argument

Actually I really don't

does it really need to be stated again?

To be fair it hasn't been stated

Okay, if you don't want to lay out the reasoning, at least give us a definition.

It doesn't "make me unhappy" it makes me an angry, scared, non person because the scientific definition of my sex is being ignored.

You all know what the reasoning is. Fair enough you don't agree with it but don't pretend you don't know the reasons.

I genuinely don't. When pressed some people say "a woman is anyone who says they are" which isn't really reasoning - it's just a circular argument.

I for one would be genuinely interested to hear your reasoning, I suspect I will disagree, but I would like to see it.

People say that a woman is an adult human female over and over again because that basic scientific fact is currently under constant challenge. There are no threads full of "gravity is a thing that exists" because there are very few people attempting to assert otherwise. If someone is asserting a thing that is out of step with the scientific consensus and what the majority of the human race believes, as Penny Mordaunt did today, they are the one being inflammatory.

"You all know what the reasoning is. Fair enough you don't agree with it but don't pretend you don't know the reasons."
Glitched-I genuinely don't. I don't understand what is wrong with saying "transwomen are transwomen". Of course they should have all the rights that other members of society have, and should be able to live their lives in peace and freedom.

I don't. Yes, please.

I don't either but would like to hear it (if I'm allowed to post in agreement with Bertrand by way of encouraging Glitched to elucidate)

You're all acting ignorant of the argument. The reasoning why trans women are women has been stated a million times all across the internet.

And if you really don't understand what it means how can you claim to be opposed to it?

Vagina
Ovaries
Womb
Vulva
Fallopian tubes
Breasts
Periods
Menopause

Only women have these - ok some women might not have all of these ( like me) but we are still women

I am a woman

No woman has a penis

Glitched, nope I'm not a mind reader, I don't know what your reasoning is so please play nicely and explain your reasoning. I'd like to debate.

I'm not so interested in being happy as I am in being scientifically accurate...

I can't believe mnhq. I had more faith in you.

I just can't quite believe it. I am insulted, upset and stressed.

Women are adult human females.

I am Spartacus.

I rarely comment on this board as I am not half as articulate as most of the posters on here but I read a LOT. I honestly can not believe that this was shut down, I just can't get my head around it.

Can someone pm me 'the other place' I have learned so much from here but I can see that discussions are now becoming less and less tolerated here. I would really like to keep reading and learning.

For the life of me, I cannot understand why there is a debate, civil or otherwise.

Woman means adult human female;
lady means adult human female;
girl means child human female; and
female means someone born with XX chromosomes.
Man means adult human male;
gentleman means adult human male;
boy means child human male; and
male means someone born with XY chromosomes.

No debate.

You're all acting ignorant of the argument. The reasoning why trans women are women has been stated a million times all across the internet

I have not seen anything approaching "reasoning" and would love to be enlightened. Please?

And if you really don't understand what it means how can you claim to be opposed to it?

Because as far as I aware it is a statement devoid of any meaning or sense. That is why I am so interested to see the reasoning behind it.

I can understand why a Trans person does not want to be described as the physical sex that they are in physical material reality. Though surely that is because of fixed gender roles and unacceptance of their non-conforming personality. Surely it can be understood that many women do not wish to conform to gender stereotypes (and many men) as it is detrimental to the human psyche.

Glitched can you define 'woman' then? Why does trans women have trans there if they are women already? What are they transitioning from and to, if they are women? Presumably women are trans women too?

"The reasoning why trans women are women has been stated a million times all across the internet."

Please could you do it one more time? Then we'll have both premises clearly stated. Which is the best starting point t for a discussion.

It's okay, you don't have to lay out your reasoning. Post a link. Or a definition of 'woman' that includes transwomen.

I am pro woman, not anti transwomen. If you can show me that they are the same thing I'll happily consider it and maybe even pack up and go home.

When people claim a male human is a woman without any attempt to clarify what a woman is to them, they are actually saying "Men are whatever men say they are". Posters are coming onto a feminist thread and just expect to women to accept what men are telling them, without question, when we know it's not true.

Women have been accused of not debating fairly on this thread, but just stating TWAW isn't debate either. It's just parroting a meaningless slogan.

The reasoning why trans women are women has been stated a million times all across the internet

It hasn't at all

I'm opposed to it because it's not true, and because when society acts as if it IS true, the consequences for women are very damaging.

If the reasoning is do easy to come by, just post it now

Yeah, but... trans women ARE women though. Most people believe it. This is just the dying gasp of bigotry.