A woman is an adult female human

[Pratchet]

Of the sex whose reproductive role is to gestate and bear young.

Let's just say this while we still can. Because it's true, and however many people try to make us lie about it, or remain silent, it will always be true.

In times of universal deceit, speaking the truth is a revolutionary act.

It hurts MY feelings to see 'transwomen are women'. It damages MY mental health to see that, it makes ME feel erased and MY identity feel destroyed. I have a voice and I deserve that voice. WE deserve it.

I am Spartacus. A woman is an adult female human. Sex is binary, immutable and defined by reproductive role.

If you report me, or get me banned you shoot the messenger. Because this is true and will always be true. And this day, this day of a lie, I WILL say it.

#Spartacus

@SarahAr "Defining womanhood by chromosomes ignores the social, legal and biological reality of many trans women's lives."

I'd like to offer this thought to you, for debate:

Redefining womanhood ignores the social, legal and biological reality of many women's lives.

SarahAr. If I want my bitch to have puppies do I have to ask other canines what they feel like before we give it a go?
Reality IS reality. Gravity is gravity no matter what we feel like (I would love to float about).
Being polite is all very well but does not change reality in any way.

Absolutely fine for dinosaursandtea to say that. Let's not do what we are accused of doing....

A woman is an adult human female.

If male transpeople are women, does that mean that they are female, or does woman mean something else?

Because chanting TWAW is meaningless if you can't define what a women is.

So, what is a woman?

A woman is an adult human female of the sex whose reproductive role is to gestate and bear young.

Let's just say this while we still can. Because it's true, and however many people try to make us lie about it, or remain silent, it will always be true.

In times of universal deceit, speaking the truth is a revolutionary act.

It hurts MY feelings to see 'transwomen are women'. It damages MY mental health to see that, it makes ME feel erased and MY identity feel destroyed. I have a voice and I deserve that voice. WE deserve it.

I am Spartacus. A woman is an adult female human. Sex is binary, immutable and defined by reproductive role.

If you report me, or get me banned you shoot the messenger. Because this is true and will always be true. And this day, this day of a lie, I WILL say it.

#Spartacus

#Spartacus

Dinosaursanstea, you missed the point. Please provide a definition of the word 'woman' that includes transwomen. Not even asking for studies and science at this point. Just a non-circular definition.

Also if TW are the same as women, women are TW?

But trans women are not women are they, because as we have relentlessly and repeatedly stated, a woman is an adult human female, of the the sex that can bear young and produce ova.
If anyone can come up with a definition of woman that includes women and transwomen I'd like to hear it. Without using crappy stereotypes. Sex and gender are not the same thing, gender is a load of crap and science is real.
I'm so sick of being gaslighted lied to and redefined. Don't know whether to be angry or cry.

Trans women are women.

If this is repeated often enough on a fast moving thread, would that also be considered inflammatory? Is it currently not inflammatory because it's only been posted once? We need some guidance on numbers here!

Trans women are women. I disagree with the OP.

MNHQ, I have also admired your attempts to steer through a complete minefield on this issue. But I feel you have got your call wrong here.

Do you understand that women make the same point here over and over because (a) that point is absolutely fundamental to them and is under threat (b) many only feel able to express it in an anonymous forum due to the hostile climate in RL. Do you understand that the point of this thread is not so much to change minds or to organise but for women to find emotional support and strength from connecting with other like minded women on an issue of women's rights that they are being stigmatised and attacked for holding?

I mean, I would not have been interested in this thread as I don't want to keep reading the same point over and over, if it weren't for your intervention.

You seem to be saying that it is not WHAT people are saying is inflammatory, but simply that they are saying it repeatedly is inflammatory. Can you tell of of any other issues where you would make that call? Because if you can't that would suggest you are being profoundly discriminatory against women finding emotional support from connecting with other women who agree on this issue of women's and girls' rights.

The UK's minister for women and equalities has stated that transwomen are women and in doing so gives a government stamp of approval over the idea that gender is innate, and implicitly endorses the idea that there is a feminine essence or soul which alone determines whether one is male or female. This is setting women's rights back by decades and should not allowed to stand unchallenged.

I have the same feeling I had when I was with my abusive ex. Dismissed, belittled, unimportant.

Me too.

Glitched, why tho

Trans women are women. I disagree with the OP.

Please can you provide your definition of 'woman'?

A woman is an adult human female. Good science tells us this.

Otherwise the situation should be the following:

No sexing in utero or at birth.

No one should have a sex, gender or sexuality.

"Trans women are women. I disagree with the OP."

Great. Can you say how you came to that belief?

@OP

You know what the reasoning is for my side of the argument. Does it really need to be stated again?

Dear MNHQ, you have got this very wrong.
In 11 or 12 years on Mumsnet I have always tried to empathise with MNHQ's stance but this crosses a line.
There is no need to ban posters from stating biological reality and if you are doing it in the hope that the attacks on Mumsnet will go away they won't. Every inch you give they will demand another mile until it is impossible to have the conversations we have had on here in over a decade of glorious, open, female-centred talk, because femaleness itself offends men and will be shut down.

Glitched, why, what is your definition of woman that's different to that In the op?
Come on, let's have a civil and reasoned debate about it.

"You know what the reasoning is for my side of the argument. Does it really need to be stated again?"

I don't. Yes, please.

But I, too, feel moved almost to tears

Tears of frustration, pain and a profound feeling of betrayal

This.

We have this one tiny corner of the internet where we can speak about our lives without being talked over and silenced by men. And now it’s going.

I’ve been here for 15 years and I feel so sad.

glitched what is your definition of the word 'woman'? Definitions are important.

You all know what the reasoning is. Fair enough you don't agree with it but don't pretend you don't know the reasons.

We clearly have a fundamental disagreement that can't seemingly be resolved without one side or the other being deeply unhappy.

You know what the reasoning is for my side of the argument. Does it really need to be stated again?

I really don't know your reasoning. Please tell me. Sorry for the cross post.

@Glitched - I don't know, so it would help me. What we are struggling with is how there can be any other definition of woman other than adult female human.