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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

"Cotton Ceiling" evidence thread

230 replies

Ereshkigal · 01/07/2018 22:02

I don't want to take this over as a straight feminist woman but am troubled at the blithe denial on other threads. This is a thread to post evidence of lesbophobia from transactivists and trans allies. I will start with the fragrant Morgane Oger:

mobile.twitter.com/fedupfemme/status/1013132702147588097

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Ereshkigal · 26/07/2018 13:51

Putting this research here as it demonstrates that lesbians aren't generally interested in a sexual relationship with males identifying as women and so is relevant to many of the claims made by TRAs that it is bigoted and not speaking for all lesbians:

static1.squarespace.com/static/527403c4e4b02d3f058d2f18/t/5b1141a670a6ad1221be99ff/1527857575352/Transgender+Exclusion+-+Pre-Print.pdf

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Ereshkigal · 26/07/2018 13:52

twitter.com/Dyketagnan/status/1021670067581288448?s=20

And here it is in Dyketagnan's excellent response to Laurie Penny.

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Ereshkigal · 26/07/2018 19:17

transgenderreality.com/2016/12/22/shallow-creepy-fetishist-of-vaginae/

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Ereshkigal · 15/08/2018 21:53

More Morgane Oger and the silencing of Canadian lesbians. Some Cotton Ceiling examples and some great comments:

www.feministcurrent.com/2018/08/13/lesbians-excluded-vancouver-dyke-march-name-inclusivity/

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Ereshkigal · 16/08/2018 12:55

https://twitter.com/BellaRizinti/status/1029785810068021248?s=20

This person claims to be a "cis lesbian". Who the fuck knows what sex they are when words don't mean anything to these fools?

For the avoidance of doubt:

hardly anyone Not everyone subscribes to transgender ideology.

Therefore hardly anyone not everyone believes MTFs are women. That's Ok. Really it is.

A lesbian is an adult human female exclusively attracted to other adult human females.

It is homophobia to deny the existence of or the right to exclusive same sex attraction.

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WibblePod · 16/08/2018 13:31

Ugh. That is just bloody awful.

Ereshkigal · 16/08/2018 13:34

I'm really not sure why she feels her argument is clever or original.

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WibblePod · 16/08/2018 13:40

And the comments! This is why the 'incel' comparison is so apt. No one has the right to demand that they be considered as a potential sexual partner.
Creepy as fuck.

Ereshkigal · 16/08/2018 13:48

YY. Apparently you have to go and meet up with the MTF so you know you aren't personally attracted to them. You can't just rule out all males because you are a homosexual female.

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Ereshkigal · 18/08/2018 14:49

twitter.com/ShurelyNot/status/1018428980221890561?s=20

Some of the replies...

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SunsetBeetch · 22/08/2018 18:20

Good article with evidence from New Zealand.

lesbian-rights-nz.org/shame-receipts

AcerbicAndroid · 23/08/2018 07:38

Apologies in advance for the long post. I’m a newbie here and I feel very strongly about this issue.

I am a lesbian. I was brought up in a conservative Christian home at a time when homosexuality was much less accepted than it is now.

I absolutely agree that everyone has the right to refuse sex to anyone for any reason, but in my view there is something particularly crappy about the “cotton ceiling” bollocks. Which, for the record, the trans people I know agree is crappy.

People like Riley Dennis, who assert that lesbians not wanting dick have been subject to anti-trans conditioning and just need to get over it, would be laughable were they not so jaw-droppingly clueless and crass.

Perhaps it is different for young lesbians now (though I doubt it), but I don’t know a single lesbian of my own age who didn’t wonder why she wasn’t attracted to those humans that have dicks and no tits.

Any anti-trans messages I received were utterly dwarfed by the anti-gay rhetoric to which I was exposed. I was taught that I should be romantically and sexually repulsed by [biological] women and excited by [biological] men. Because I felt the opposite, I was disgusted with myself and tried desperately to be attracted to boys/men. It took me years to get over the belief that my sexuality made me fundamentally foul and unlovable.

I know other lesbians who felt the same. Many of us were ridiculed and ostracised. Some were rejected by their families. Others were put through conversion therapy, even exorcism.

So the idea that we just need to think about why we don’t like dick is, as I say, jaw-droppingly crass. Not only will (I reckon) pretty much every lesbian have thought about this - many of us agonised over it.

Ereshkigal · 23/08/2018 08:34

Welcome Acerbic and thank you ThanksBrew(bit early for anything else)

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AcerbicAndroid · 23/08/2018 08:40

Thanks, Ereshkigal. Flowers and coffee gratefully accepted!

SunsetBeetch · 24/08/2018 17:30

"Pretendbians" on OK Cupid.

pretendbian.wordpress.com/2013/03/31/dear-ok-cupid/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

SunsetBeetch · 24/08/2018 17:31

Teenagers getting abuse

"Cotton Ceiling" evidence thread
"Cotton Ceiling" evidence thread
WatchThePotatoesBoil · 07/10/2018 10:59

Not cotton-specific, but clearly a big part of the target of the message from Fox & Owl:

(note - link deliberately jumps to the relevant part of the video)

Ereshkigal · 07/10/2018 15:39

To avoid watching any more Fox and Owl nonsense than necessary? Grin TRAs can't do parody, because their ideas of reality always tops it! Some of those statements were pretty much exactly what they think.

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Ereshkigal · 01/11/2018 20:14

Rachael McKinnon-another gem from the "you couldn't make it up" guidebook.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3411070-Rachael-McKinnon-another-gem-from-the-you-couldnt-make-it-up-guidebook

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Ereshkigal · 02/12/2018 13:52

Towards the beginning of the thread I posted a link to a google drive with lots of evidence of the homophobia and threats of TRAs. I don't think that link works any more.

But this one does

drive.google.com/drive/u/0/mobile/folders/13vfYxPdJ-HeeLfk_EDg9fR9lUx2NFWpd

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Spottycake · 02/12/2018 16:51

Feeling sick

AncientLights · 02/12/2018 17:04

Where's the vomit emoticon on here?

Ereshkigal · 02/12/2018 18:05
Envy
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Ereshkigal · 02/12/2018 18:05

Both jealousy and vomit!

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Ereshkigal · 27/09/2019 09:25

Posted from another thread:

An interesting if depressing thread from other lesbians who had previously been comfortable with their sexuality but are now experiencing internalised homophobia due to the current TQ movement:
https://www.reddit.com/r/truelesbians/comments/d8vac6/morestressedaboutbeinglesbiansincethis_terf/

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