"Cotton Ceiling" evidence thread

[Ereshkigal]

I don't want to take this over as a straight feminist woman but am troubled at the blithe denial on other threads. This is a thread to post evidence of lesbophobia from transactivists and trans allies. I will start with the fragrant Morgane Oger:

mobile.twitter.com/fedupfemme/status/1013132702147588097

I don't care what you are. Engage or don't. Try making an actual argument why lesbians and other women should have to put up with this male supremacy shit. Why we're expected to welcome these people into our spaces with a smile.

You do clearly live in a bubble. And you don't sound like you like MN too much. Hence the suggestion.

It wasn't an attempt to shut down debate. Debate is not something the gender critical posters here shy away from. It was an observation.

Bring the debate.

You do clearly live in a bubble.

Yeah, the bubble where I actually look beyond this site to see what other lesbians, trans people and feminists are saying rather than just staying in an echo chamber where just one side of the argument is bounced around.

And you don't sound like you like MN too much. Hence the suggestion.

I like Mumsnet a lot thank you very much. It has lots of interesting forum areas. Actually, you sound like you don't like the discussion element of it. Perhaps you should follow your own suggestion.

Actually, you sound like you don't like the discussion element of it.

Yes, that's an entirely reasonable assumption when I just said "bring the debate"

Yes, that's an entirely reasonable assumption when I just said "bring the debate" hmm

Yes those who suggest that people with views they don't like go somewhere else are really looking to debate. To use your own phrase, that doesn't wash.

There cannot be a debate about whether lesbians are transphobic. Listen to the ones who say there is a problem. Because the others are 'bisexual'.

It's right there in the Equality Act.

You certainly are in a bigoted, bullying type of way.

You what? You were the one who said That's quite amusing based on what I've seen of this forum so far. You don't seem to like it much, Kid. So Ereshkigal suggested you might prefer another forum.

But if you'd like to, please do stay and engage. It's not gender critical feminists who say hashtag nodebate.

A man who experiences sexual attraction towards both men and women is “bisexual” in terms of sexual orientation even if he has only had relationships with women.

A woman who is attracted only to other women is a lesbian
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/notes/division/3/2/1/9/3

I suggested you go elsewhere because you were boringly whinging about MN, not because I don't think I can handle your killer arguments. Get over yourself.

And stop derailing this thread to call out and evidence the undoubted bullying and coercion of lesbian women by abusive misogynistic males and their useful idiot supporters. Or do you think it's all made up?

It's not gender critical feminists who say hashtag nodebate.

This. It comes across as a bit of a DARVO.

I'd recommend looking beyond this site and ask yourself is this something that trans people and lesbians seem to be generally talking about?

I came to Mumsnet FWR years after I'd been peak transed elsewhere. It was the words - and pictures - produced by transactivists that turned me from an uncritical ally into a gender critical feminist, Kid They taught me how misogynistic and lesbophobic trans ideology was.

As for lesbians, you can't miss the anger, frustration and distress so many - including whole groups - are going through as a result of appropriation of their sexual orientation by men who identify as women.

transgender-uber-alles.tumblr.com/post/141385666859/trans-women-shouldnt-tell-people-theyre-trans

Have looked beyond this site and am happy that I'm fighting in the right corner. The above link posted on this site I post again - it is proof that men be they trans or otherwise, straight, gay or bi sexual should NOT be allowed in women's safe places. One person like this is one person too many. They do not need to be the majority. One of them is enough to cause harm, irreparable harm. This one person is proof that concern is justified. This person proves that lesbians are being abused. Anyone who cannot see what this person did was wrong is not someone who can be debated with and is certainly lacking in empathy and basic decency.

clicky link. Not a pleasant read.

Not a pleasant read.

That's the person who said that trans women can never rape a cis woman even if they force them to have sex, because rape is about power which trans women dont have due to being the most persecuted people on the planet they sound like a very dangerous person

That is frightening reading. Any woman who reads some of what's written by that person and some of their hash tags such as #killcisbitches cannot continue to fight for people like this. Surely not, this is a seriously disturbed individual whose rapey, misogynistic ramblings have been shared and liked by over 1000 people, with user names that make your skin crawl. I've just peaked up 1000 notches.

This is such doublespeak .....

Trans women who haven’t had surgery have a chance of getting their partners pregnant, so keep that in mind

twitter.com/inanna62/status/1018207110255951872?s=20

averyedison.com/rightbodywrongjunk/files/Right_Body_Wrong_Junk_Avery_Edison.html Have we had this yet?
It's the Best of Both Worlds blog by A Edison here that I'm meaning.
It now has a preface saying 'TERFS think this is rapey but i'm proud of it'

How utterly surprising.

Right now on Twitter, the top 'Moment' is about a transwoman, Serena Dariani, wondering how to tell the man they've been dating for a month that they are trans. The whole tone is 'don't hurt me', with other people advising Dariani on how to stay safe.

How different the tone is when the ignorant partner is a woman. Then it's lectures on bigotry and talk of breaking through the cotton ceiling. Nobody worries how women will react - it's put up or shut up.

The big take home message of transactivism is that women's consent doesn't matter. Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss. It's the almighty dick, natch.

It's striking how a lot of responses to Dariani are outraged at Dariani's deception, but when women speak out about a similar thing at Pride (the right to a sexual orientation), they're vilified.

Might he not have an inkling now it's an international twitter story though?

Maybe this is a way of manipulating the guy into a situation where he can't say no without looking bad, like a public marriage proposal.

Quite possibly! However the majority of tweets I read were on his side in a way that they wouldn't be if it were a woman.