Urgent: banning gender identity conversion

[Pratchet]

www.buzzfeed.com/patrickstrudwick/gay-cures-could-be-banned-under-a-new-law-in-the-uk?origin=shp&utm_term=.nw24d18NQk#.keZANE7n3Y
Homosexuality 'conversion cures' must be banned,

They are sneaking in 'gender identity' to the law so that ONLY AFFIRMATION will be sllowed. 'Watch and wait' could be banned as conversion therapy. Kids need our help.

This legislation must be restricted to homosexuality, to allow childrenntime to become happy in their changing bodies. Help.

What does would any legislation mean for children questioning their gender identity?
What is gender identity?
Does it require a diagnosis?
What would someone be trying to convert someone from and to?

Conversion therapy is fairly specific to homosexuality, and is about behaviour in many ways.

Children with gender dysphoria, children who reject their own body, need a different kind of support from those who are homosexual. When they receive counselling to help them understand their discomfort, it is not conversion therapy. We cannot risk the support offered to gender dysphoric kids reducing even more out of fear of being seen as potentially illegal 'conversion therapy'.

I don't want a watch and wait approach, MistyEyed. I want dramatic surgical intervention and cakes. More legs are required. And those flappy things. Extra of those too. Did I mention the cakes?

I've seen a number of transactivists over several years claim that anything but wholehearted endorsement and medical treatment for GNC children is conversion therapy. It's not a new claim.

Given that conversion therapy has such a lousy reputation, it's important that gender critical feminists get the message out that the watch and wait NHS policy bears no resemblance.

Quite the opposite. Calls for the immediate medicalisation of GNC children are for a form of conversion therapy in that it forces children who would otherwise likely have grown up gay or lesbian into quasi heterosexuals on lifelong medication. Worse than conversion therapy, it sterilizes them too. Fuck, this shit is nasty.

Conversion therapy is fairly specific to homosexuality, and is about behaviour in many ways.

That is totally contrary to the evidence
www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/80-000-teens-will-undergo-conversion-therapy-near-future-study-n841356

That is an NBC article that says nothing related to the bolded statement you picked out.

I am against gay conversion therapy.

What even is gender identity conversion therapy? See also questions above.

Where is the definition even, let alone science and research?

Prawn I'm here for you and support you, maybe when you have explored your feelings more you can get those extra legs or maybe youll be happier without them.

I don't know about what those floppy things are but please give me time to learn about it so I can support you better while you explore and grow. Until then to show that I care and have validated your feelings have

I would say the law needs to be a lot clearer. I do not think the (woefully inadequate) support offered in the U.K. could possibly be classed as conversion therapy. Conversion therapy is something quite specific, designed to modify someone's behaviour and sexuality.

If anything, physically transitioning children is more in line with conversion therapy than any counselling could be.

Being gay harms no one and needs no medical intervention.
Being transgender often means irreversible medical intervention with unknown long term side effects, sterility etc.
Lumping gender identity under a conversion therapy ban WILL lead to therapists feeling unable to question self-diagnosis and exploration of other ways of coping with dysphoria, as it has in the US.

That is totally contrary to the evidence
www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/80-000-teens-will-undergo-conversion-therapy-near-future-study-n841356

Hi Snappity. What,for you, is the key piece of contrary evidence that the linked report provides?

Hi Snappity. What,for you, is the key piece of contrary evidence that the linked report provides

That trans people are also subjected to conversion therapy

How many trans people are sobjested to conversion therapy and, also, what exactly is the purpose of conversion therapy for trans people? I understand conversion therapy in terms of working on homosexual people to change their sexuality to heterosexual but I’m less clear what it means in terms of trans people.

What snappity's article highlights to me is the danger of private medicine!

In the U.K., medics and therapists won't be delivering aversive techniques to children because their parents are fundamentalist bigots.

Cruella
I'd also like to know the answer to that. The only thing I can think of is that it's therapy to help people to come to terms with the body they have, rather than be subjected to a lifetime of medication and major surgery.

That can't be it, though, because nobody would be against such an outcome.

www.losangelesblade.com/2018/02/08/ohio-trans-boy-seeks-judges-ok-avoid-conversion-therapy/amp/

If conversion therapy for gender identity does not exist, how come one child had to go to court to prevent it?

We are talking about the U.K. though, snappity. The original post is about a change to U.K. law.

We are talking about the U.K. though, snappity. The original post is about a change to U.K. law.

Yes, but people are denying that conversion therapy exists. It does. It should be banned and those practising it prosecuted.

I'd also like to know the answer to that. The only thing I can think of is that it's therapy to help people to come to terms with the body they have, rather than be subjected to a lifetime of medication and major surgery.

I guess so Old Crone. The idea of talking therapy being a conversion therapy rests on the presumption of the existence of a gender identity firstly, and then that gender identity can be at odds with your sexed body. If either of those things are false in any or all cases, it’s just therapy.

Snappity At what point does talking therapy become conversion therapy in respect of trans people?

The UK Council for Psychotherapy has a Memorandum of Understanding against conversion therapy, including for gender identity

www.psychotherapy.org.uk/about-ukcp/public-policy/conversion-therapy/

They state

Since then, all major professional bodies representing psychological therapy in the UK have made clear that offering conversion therapy would be in breach of their professional codes of practice.

Any indeed these organisations plus NHS England and NHS Scotland have signed the Memorandum of Understanding.

Given such strong medical evidence that conversion therapy for trans people is unethical, maybe those saying it should not be made illegal can explain why they don't accept the overwhelming medical consensus?

Snappity At what point does talking therapy become conversion therapy in respect of trans people?

I am sure that the medical profession is better placed to answer that than me.

Well an anonymous counsellor based in the gender identity clinic recently reported that she feels she can’t properly counsel the children she sees due to the memorandum of understanding. Just because NHS Scotland signed up to it doesn’t mean the people actually working with these kids think it’s a good idea. Hence she couldn’t speak out freely. We all know which way the Scottish government are going with this process and it’s a scary prospect

I am sure that the medical profession is better placed to answer that than me.

Yes I don’t doubt that’s true but I’m interested in your opinion as someone who has thought about this and obviously has a strong opinion. Just in a general way, what sort of parameters do you think therapy should have? What sort of subjects should be allowed and what avenues of discussion would constitute conversion therapy?

Snappity
You seem to be convinced that "conversion therapy" for trans people is a bad thing. Can you explain what is meant by "conversion therapy" in the context of trans people? What would be the aims of the therapy? What would be the desired outcome?

In the vain hope of drawing out some clarity here - are the activist contingent are saying 'Conversion therapy = helping trans presenting young people feel happy with the body they were born with, through extensive, compassionate counselling'?