Urgent: banning gender identity conversion

[Pratchet]

www.buzzfeed.com/patrickstrudwick/gay-cures-could-be-banned-under-a-new-law-in-the-uk?origin=shp&utm_term=.nw24d18NQk#.keZANE7n3Y
Homosexuality 'conversion cures' must be banned,

They are sneaking in 'gender identity' to the law so that ONLY AFFIRMATION will be sllowed. 'Watch and wait' could be banned as conversion therapy. Kids need our help.

This legislation must be restricted to homosexuality, to allow childrenntime to become happy in their changing bodies. Help.

I dislike holding individuals to account for the crimes of others And ime we ought to be particularly wary of doing so when a protected characteristic is involved. I know I will get slated for this.

"do you think you fit better into the societal role of “woman,” or “man,” or do neither ring particularly true for you? That is, are you somewhere in-between the two? Or do you consider your gender to fall outside of the spectrum completely? The answer is your gender identity." I find the question offensive. The societal role assigned to "woman" is intrinsically linked to oppression and objectification. I wonder when we forgot that assigning societal roles to people based upon their belonging to a particular "category" oppressive?

There is no difference in hormone levels at the age of 3 between boys and girls. There is no observable difference between brains. Psychologists are able to listen to how children talk about gender and they are able to see the way people categorise children from a very young age. They observe the impact of categorisation on children. We know how gender identity develops. It develops socially. The defining factors for what identity develops will include: the social roles and level and type of sex based normative influence a child is exposed to, the way a child responds to social cues, plus a myriad of individual experiences that makes up that child's internal and external story.

Human brains. Human brains!

Children at age three start to see differences in sex. This is around the age where kids notice that mama and papa have different bodies - and that they are more like one of them.
It’s also the age we start to name those parts correctly and talk about boundaries - the NSPCC ‘pants’ campaign for example is excellent. And boundaries are very important
Gender is not what they start to get an awareness of - it’s their sex.

I do wonder how much clearer this whole issue would be if there were separate words in English for the sex of a person and the act of having sex. A lot of the initial push to use gender seems to have been accepted because people are squeamish about the word sex.

HilaryMGSDC

As you know it, do you think you fit better into the societal role of “woman,” or “man,” or do neither ring particularly true for you?

News flash, Hilary. It's 2018, not 1820. How do the societal roles of "woman" and "man" differ in current society in the UK?

The protestors at wpuk are campaigning with a major error of fact. They seem to believe that 'trans identities' are protected under the law. Hilary, I believe the people in charge of transadvocate organisations are responsible for spreading this lie. I'm sure the kids themselves believe it - they aren't the questioning kind. But it's just not true, is it? So are they getting that from your organisation?

By protesters, I mean protestors, not the women holding a meeting

Materialist As law abiding citizen of the UK I condemn any illegal action or act by anybody who commits a crime.

That covers everyone with responsibility for their actions under UK law. If you read the information on the link to hate crime you would have seen that anyone can be a victim of hate crime, but that the court only has an uplift on sentencing for those who fit the listed characteristics as these are the groups most a risk of victimisation.

Pratchet What do you mean by trans identities in your Q?

Everybody has a right in law to peaceful demonstration, to protest peacefully, To hold meetings that are peaceful as long as they do not incite hate against any group, community, race, ethnicity, religious belief or non belief, age, sex, sexuality, gender reassignment.

Laws protecting Trans people
www.pfc.org.uk/Equality.html
www.pfc.org.uk/GRA2004.html

Human Rights Act
Article 14 No discrimination
All of the rights and freedoms contained in the Human Rights Act must be protected and applied without discrimination.

Article 14 requires there be no discrimination in the application of human rights on any ground, and this includes (but is not exhaustive of) grounds such as:

sex
race
colour
language
religion
disability
gender
political or other opinion
national or social origin
association with a national minority
property
birth
or any other status (including, for example, sexual orientation or marital status)

Article 11: Your right to freedom of assembly and association
Everyone has the right to associate with others and gather together for a common purpose.

Article 11 is fundamental to keeping us free. It lets us protest peacefully, join trade unions and hold the powerful to account.
Freedom of assembly
Article 11 is closely linked to freedom of expression as it applies to protests, marches and demonstrations, counter-demonstrations, press conferences, public and private meetings and more – but it does not protect intentionally violent protest.

www.libertyhumanrights.org.uk/human-rights

Do you think that conversion therapy for sexuality and gender identity breaks the human rights legislation that protects vulnerable people?

Do you think that conversion therapy for sexuality and gender identity breaks the human rights legislation that protects vulnerable people?

I believe adding gender will set up a conflict because to give a young person who may be a lesbian conversion therapy to tell her she is in fact a straight boy is denial of her future sexuality.

How will you be able to ensure that NO CHILD will be given affirmative therapy on gender / sex which will conflict with conversion therapy for sexuality?

Has anyone even thought about this, or are they just ploughing ahead regardless?

Do you not see the potential for risk?

Child who is gender non conforming
Child told they are the opposite sex
Child pushed down blockers/cross sex hormones/surgery route.

What if that child would just turn out to be gay?

What consideration is being being given to how telling children they are the opposite sex (biologically impossible) is in fact conversion therapy for children who may turn out to be gay?

Why can’t kids be told ‘there’s nothing wrong with YOU. It’s society and their crap gender stereotypes. YOU are perfect as you are.’

Do you think that conversion therapy for sexuality and gender identity breaks the human rights legislation that protects vulnerable people?

Agree with everything that Bowl said in response to this, but I've one further comment about 'conversion therapy for gender identity'.

There are (at least) two groups of people who might seek therapy regarding gender issues. One is people who are unsure whether they are gay or transgender. Affirmation of one of these is 'conversion therapy' regarding the other, as Bowl explained.

The other group of people are those with sex dysphoria. 'Conversion therapy' for them would consist of enabling them to live fulfilled lives without undergoing or surgical treatment or requiring medication for life with all the negative effects these treatments might bring.

I can't think of any other condition where psychotherapy to enable someone to live comfortably with the body they have would be seen as a more negative outcome than "affirming" that that person needed to have major surgery to remove or mutilate healthy organs and spend their life reliant on medication.

Agree completely with crone

"Gender is not what they start to get an awareness of (at 3) - it’s their sex."

I beg to differ. Children as young as 3 do frequently exhibit simple stereotyping eg associating football or construction vehicles with men and princess dresses with women. It depends a lot on what they have been exposed to. Gender stereotyping (which many children do internalise) often begins very very young. And gender identity is stereotypes internalised.

Eg. A neurotypical 3 year old can usually tell whether another child their age is male or female based upon their clothes and haircut despite the fact those norms have never been explained to them. Many autistic children however cannot.