Reality check

[Pratchet]

It's shit but I think we have to be pragmatic. And disclaimer: the below does not refer to all trans people or all transadvocates.

Imagine how many pairs of TRA eyes are trawling every single post on Mumsnet about trans issues. There are the resources, the legal support and the tech experience there to build a civil case, or find the one post that tips over into breaching IPSO and Ofcom guidelines, that can lead to sanction, compensation or worse for MN.

They don't even need eyes. They can build algorithms that trawl mumsnet for them. They want that log of complaints or posts that will enable legal action, criminal action or any other official sanction. There is no lull or respite from this. Mumsnet is the only mass crossover media which enables conversation on this issue which is not trans-agenda driven. It's the only one left that promotes a feminist view. The drive to stop this conversation will not stop, or rest, ever.

And who will they complain to? They will be complaining to people who have had 'trans awareness training' and bodies which have extremely active awareness networks, looking for offensive material. Going back years, through the media, including the BBC and ITV at the highest levels, police, monitoring organisations, government, the civil service, about how vulnerable trans people are, about how oppressed trans people are. What are Mumsnet's chances of coming out the other side and being able to allow this conversation to go on?

We all know this, but it's actually real. It's not theoretical.

Don't do the TRAs' job for them. Please don't jump. Please don't throw yourselves in front of the train. This is David and Goliath, we are amateurs all, new to the field, up against an army of well-prepared professionals. But we can do this.

Here are some links.

www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0009/112500/dip-statement.pdf
www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0019/109711/consultation-diversity-inclusion-plan.pdf
www.allabouttrans.org.uk/about/media-interactions/
www.allabouttrans.org.uk/a-meet-up-with-the-independent-press-standards-organisation/
www.out-law.com/en/articles/2018/february/uk-to-review-laws-on-offensive-online-communications/
www.gov.uk/government/news/home-secretary-announces-new-national-online-hate-crime-hub

Bowl can you start a thread. This is a new narrative to scaremonger across a number of posters and a number of threads. Any chance you (anyone?) can start a thread to debunk and set out the real situation.

I and many other people want to see MN shut down

Personally i wouldnt have a massive issue if the (unnamed) poster had said 'mn feminism chat shut down'

But a forum full of support for breastfeeding mums, dads with child issues, relationships, LGBT children, telly addicts???

I mean... what sort of a person wants to do that!!

Actually i know but its those pesky talk guidelines...

Omg dam
I can’t believe u just wrote u want to see mn shut down
Why woul£ u even do that
I would never g9 on a forum I didn’t like and enjoy
Or is it that we have to be shut up ?
Stop speaking women
Be silent

Jeez

Some people really seem to be going to extremes to get people to stop posting and listening

Bowlofbabelfish
What has to stop?
All the lies, innuendo, and abuse. Conspiring to distort the results of official surveys.
Promoting publications by unqualified people which encourage schools to break the law by discriminating against trans kids.
Scaring other women into joining the anti-trans cabal.
etc. etc. You know the sort of stuff.

People disagreeing with you isn’t hatred.
No. People spreading malicious lies and rumours intended to make trans people feel threatened is. So is doing those things in order to encourage others to hate, or to think that abusing trans people is normal, acceptae, or even praiseworthy.

^Adequate legal protections? Gender reassignment is listed as a protected characteristic under the EA, as is for example disability, religious belief etc.
Can you please clarify what extra protections you feel are needed that are on top of those given to the other protected groups?^
Inciting hatred is the obvious one. Someone who chooses to follow a religion is protected: someone who is born trans is not.
And there are on-going issues of enforcement of the protections we do have.

How is discussion on MN directly ‘trashing lives’? Well you did a damn good job of trashing mine. After I was diagnosed, my ex and I were working through a civilized break-up ... until
she got suckered into the MN anti-trans board. Within days, everything she had learned about transsexuality was junked. I was abused, physically attacked, and driven out of our home.
My kids suffered in the fallout, as well as both of us. It has taken years to rebuild any mutual respect or trust. And I am one of the lucky ones --- I still see my daughters, and my ex and I still help each other out as friends. In spite of Mumsnet's poisonous influence.
Mumsnet's transphobic influence.is particularly worryimg when there are trans kids in involved. There is clear evidence that with support from family friends and school they can develop into happy, healthy adults. But Mumsnet promotes the opposite -- driving trans kids to self harm and mental illness.
No feminist has punched a transwoman to the floor
Are you sure? And anyway how is this question relevant other than as a piece of fear-mongering innuendo?
No feminist has attacked a transwoman physically
False
No feminist has threatened a meeting of transpeople with a bomb.
More groundless innuendo.
No feminist has masked up and prevented transpeople from meeting or speaking Same again.
We could all play at that game, but the "No trans person has ever...." list would be more serious, and based on real, evidenced incidents, rather than propaganda stunts acted out to fill column inches in the Mail or Times.
No trans person has ever driven an anti-trans activist to kill themselves
No trans person has ever campaigned to have someone dismissed from their job because of a congenital condition.
No trans person has ever sat in the audience of a TV debate shouting "penis penis" at the panellists in order to stop the discssion.
No influential trans person has ever told a mass meeting of her supporters that it's OK to thump people ... and released video of the speech so as to ensure maximum coverage. etc etc.
No trans person has ever campaigned for anyone else's legal protections to be withdrawn.

this thread has made me even more nervous about everything

was that the intention?

was that the intention?

YES.

If ur ex battered u dam u should go to the police and report them

Tis the only thing to do

It’s domestic violence and nobody should be battered by anyone

Wait, that post was supposed to make me nervous!?

Oh

All im getting is a bored feeling...is that like being nervous?

I could be getting the two confused but i dont think that's likely

Bowlofbabelfish
What has to stop?
All the lies, innuendo, and abuse. Conspiring to distort the results of official surveys.
Promoting publications by unqualified people which encourage schools to break the law by discriminating against trans kids.
Scaring other women into joining the anti-trans cabal.
etc. etc. You know the sort of stuff.

People disagreeing with you isn’t hatred.
No. People spreading malicious lies and rumours intended to make trans people feel threatened is. So is doing those things in order to encourage others to hate, or to think that abusing trans people is normal, acceptae, or even praiseworthy.

^Adequate legal protections? Gender reassignment is listed as a protected characteristic under the EA, as is for example disability, religious belief etc.
Can you please clarify what extra protections you feel are needed that are on top of those given to the other protected groups?^
Inciting hatred is the obvious one. Someone who chooses to follow a religion is protected: someone who is born trans is not.
And there are on-going issues of enforcement of the protections we do have.

How is discussion on MN directly ‘trashing lives’? Well you did a damn good job of trashing mine. After I was diagnosed, my ex and I were working through a civilized break-up ... until
she got suckered into the MN anti-trans board. Within days, everything she had learned about transsexuality was junked. I was abused, physically attacked, and driven out of our home.
My kids suffered in the fallout, as well as both of us. It has taken years to rebuild any mutual respect or trust. And I am one of the lucky ones --- I still see my daughters, and my ex and I still help each other out as friends. In spite of Mumsnet's poisonous influence.
Mumsnet's transphobic influence.is particularly worryimg when there are trans kids in involved. There is clear evidence that with support from family friends and school they can develop into happy, healthy adults. But Mumsnet promotes the opposite -- driving trans kids to self harm and mental illness.
No feminist has punched a transwoman to the floor
Are you sure? And anyway how is this question relevant other than as a piece of fear-mongering innuendo?
No feminist has attacked a transwoman physically
False
No feminist has threatened a meeting of transpeople with a bomb.
More groundless innuendo.
No feminist has masked up and prevented transpeople from meeting or speaking Same again.
We could all play at that game, but the "No trans person has ever...." list would be more serious, and based on real, evidenced incidents, rather than propaganda stunts acted out to fill column inches in the Mail or Times.
No trans person has ever driven an anti-trans activist to kill themselves
No trans person has ever campaigned to have someone dismissed from their job because of a congenital condition.
No trans person has ever sat in the audience of a TV debate shouting "penis penis" at the panellists in order to stop the discssion.
No influential trans person has ever told a mass meeting of her supporters that it's OK to thump people ... and released video of the speech so as to ensure maximum coverage. etc etc.
No trans person has ever campaigned for anyone else's legal protections to be withdrawn.

Rufus, I mean the OP.

Honestly, I have got a bit of muddled brain from insomnia, but really, WTAF is going on?

ah. MN has been a bad influence on your ex Damnthatonestakentryanother2

gotcha

^No feminist has threatened a meeting of transpeople with a bomb.
More groundless innuendo^

or facts as people in this universe know them

www.hastingsobserver.co.uk/news/police-investigating-bomb-threat-against-hastings-meeting-1-8539357

^No feminist has threatened a meeting of transpeople with a bomb.
More groundless innuendo^

or facts as people in this universe know them

www.hastingsobserver.co.uk/news/police-investigating-bomb-threat-against-hastings-meeting-1-8539357

No feminist has masked up and prevented transpeople from meeting or speaking

Bobbins Damnthatonestakentryanother2

But the shock and outrage I felt at this footage by the magnificent Julie Bindel turned me from a passive to an active participant in all this, so thanks for the opportunity to post it again.

No feminist has masked up and prevented transpeople from meeting or speaking

Bobbins Damnthatonestakentryanother2

But the shock and outrage I felt at this footage by the magnificent Julie Bindel turned me from a passive to an active participant in all this, so thanks for the opportunity to post it again.

cor blimey. sorry for the repeated posts

cor blimey. sorry for the repeated posts

Bloody hell, MN is hard to read today with everything being posted twice all the time!!!

Oh, and Damn, thanks for your candor. Stating openly that you and your buddies want to shut MN down and that this is a revenge mission for you is a very helpful admission.

cor blimey. sorry for the repeated posts

I am beginning to think that the servers are slow to respond today

^"my ex and I were working through a civilized break-up ... until
she got suckered into the MN anti-trans board"you're

Well. That explains a lot.

MN's servers seem to be either slow or at a standstill this afternoon, although occasionally they come back to life.

Either the heat or a DOS attack, maybe. I hope it isn't the latter but I can't say it would surprise me at the moment.

outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/2015/10/21/always-never-statements