TRA's have shot themselves in the foot.

[spontaneousgiventime]

I was just heading to bed when I had a thought that has given me the giggles gin induced

Trans activists have really shot themselves in the foot. Here everything we say is public so they can read it. Now, many of us have joined a totally private forum where you can't even see the names of the members unless you log in. It is also giving women a much freer reign to say what they want and we can swear.

So fuck you TRA, you knew what we were saying here, now you won't have a fucking clue, all you can do is guess.

Women 1-0 TRA

I haven't read the full thread and would like to join... but also agree with the other thread to some degree about them sort of winning if we all disappear!

Also would like to point out that this thread is exactly why I argue for total freedom of speech. "Bad people" (racists and holocaust deniers etc) do exactly this. Disappear onto private threads where nobody can see them and see what they're saying or what they're planning. Call me old fashioned but I like my racism out in the open where it can be challenged, not pushed underground where it can fester and grow...

The objective of this assault is not to remove a specific term the group finds offensive, its to force use of the word woman to describe them. Only woman. Only that term.

That's exactly what it is.

And it's exactly why Kate can't give me a term I can use no matter how many times I ask. It is not possible to use a collective term for either of the sex-based subsets of trans people that does not either reference their sex or appropriate my sex.

I. Will. Not. Comply.

We cant all stop posting here.

1. Because its what they want and 2. We reach people here. Other women, men jurnos and lots of other people im sure. People are reading... they cant do that if we hide everything.

Though i would like an invite to the new place please i dont want to be left out.

Also it would be good to have somewhere to let off steam and rant without the need of having babysitters police our language.

Also if our language is going to be restricted, the other place can be used to discuss things indepth and how we want, then reposted here "in the correct way" (i cant believe im actually fucking typing this. Its 2018 ffs)

I've now sent out the info to all those who DM'd me. Please do contact me if you want to join as it will be easier than me trying to go through the thread and missing someone who may feel they are not welcome.

Thanks.

Have sent a PM

No he gets a she out of me.

This is the thread I started which prompted the admin of the forum to contact me. www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3278130-GC-Forums-or-forum-builders

Surely by going elsewhere you are just taking the debate out of the public arena?

You go off and you are leaving this (very public) space wide open.

I don’t see how TRAs have shot themselves in the foot at all. Surely by driving you away they have won a victory?

So, I am allowed to discuss biological fact, as long as I only discuss biological fact related to people who accept biological fact, otherwise I’m hurting their feelings, and that’s not allowed.
So does that mean people aren’t allowed to state facts to me if it hurts my feelings? ?
Well, imagine all the wormholes we could be sucked down by this. I might nip in Tesco and refused to pay for my shopping because I don’t believe in the fact that it belongs to them till I pay for it. All those other people queueing up at the checkout and the self scan obviously do believe in this fact, but they are wrong, and you can’t relate a fact to me unless I believe it because it hurts my feelings, and that’s not allowed. . This shopping was meant for me. I know that because it’s exactly what I needed and I somehow knew to picked it up so it must be mine. It was mistakenly put in Tesco, rather than my cupboards, but I know it’s mine because I say it is.

Right then, I’m off. If I get a fine I’ll tell them that MN told me it’s ok, and to send the fine onto them if they do insist.

I don't see it as a TRA victory, I see moving as a victory for free speech. No one is being forced to move, but more will now post in private as well as public. Private organising will become more and more frequent. In that respect they will now know nothing of what's going on, I call that a shot in the foot.

Thanks second.
OK, so you can't say Trans Identified Male but you can say Transwoman or M2F/F2M?
Personally I'm OK with that-I don't have an emotional response to calling transwomen just that if that's what's acceptable (after all its always been the term hasn't it?).
Can you say "Transvestite" when talking about AGP men and "Transsexual" when referencing post operative trans people?
As I understand it MN have also banned "Cis" which surely is progress?
I would have a problem if we had to call them "women" and women "cis-women" because that's just bonkers.
I do think (from an outside perspective) that some posts on here can tip over into proper vitriol about everything trans.
While I understand that if you spend a lot of time on Twitter reading TRA tweets it will give you the rage, in general terms civil and rational discussion IN PUBLIC seems essential to getting the point accross that feminists are concerned with the interests of women and girls and are not "anti trans".
It would be a shame if everyone abandoned FWR because it's only from threads popping up on Active that I know anything at all about self id, Mermaids etc.

Who has said we can say M2F?

Not only do they want to be called women...they want to be able to say that some of us aren't women (make sure you look and act as if you are in a 1950's movie at all times...Stepford wives or nothing!).

Yes we are to be renamed xx

MtF, Erishkagal? I saw it in one of, I think, KateMumsnet's clarifications on one of the two Site Stuff threads.

me too

MtF, Erishkagal? I saw it in one of, I think, KateMumsnet's clarifications on one of the two Site Stuff threads.

Really? I thought she said that nothing that referenced sex was acceptable.

It is like the ant theory of self-healing networks. Break and ant column and it recreates itself using the smaller links it has going around it. Many alternative links = unnoticeable repair

Whoa, I've never heard of that. Every day is a school day.

People are sending me things like Twitter names etc to 'prove' they are genuine. PLEASE don't send me private information, the details I send you will show you who to contact and I'm sure they will check things out. I feel uncomfortable being given information I don't need. The forum has nothing to do with me, I'm just a member and the person passing along the info for joining.

I'm not leaving MN, although I look forward to joining a forum where we can speak honestly without the thought police watching our every mood.

We will not be erased.

Really? I thought she said that nothing that referenced sex was acceptable.

That's not how I read it either. Not that I'd be using MTF because people can't change sex. I would use MTT but as I understand it, that would be banned.

Stonewall quote MTF as ok.

But, what Lang said.

I'd like to join as well please.

MtF works for me. Masculine to feminine. Not sex. Presentation.

Pm'd you