TRA's have shot themselves in the foot.

[spontaneousgiventime]

I was just heading to bed when I had a thought that has given me the giggles gin induced

Trans activists have really shot themselves in the foot. Here everything we say is public so they can read it. Now, many of us have joined a totally private forum where you can't even see the names of the members unless you log in. It is also giving women a much freer reign to say what they want and we can swear.

So fuck you TRA, you knew what we were saying here, now you won't have a fucking clue, all you can do is guess.

Women 1-0 TRA

If this is the same new forum as was being talked about on another thread, I did ask to be pm'd but haven't yet heard anything. I'd still appreciate joining, or isn't that possible?

Oh yes I have asked but haven’t heard but I expect you want to avoid anyone who isn’t genuine.
I don’t post much I tend to lurk, but went to the Cardiff meet, contributed to the all women’s shortlist crowdfunder and posy’s legal fees crowdfunder. I’m also in a few Facebook groups under my real life name and follow a lot of GC feminists on twitter under my real life name.

@spontaneousgiventime I disagree, it has been said on this thread already but I'm going to reiterate it because I think it is important. The only way that anything will change is if people are talking about this issue and its impact on women's rights. Talking on private forums is great and a way to release frustrations but is no substitute for continuing to speak in open forums such as MN (albeit with the risk of getting banned for breaching one of the new "rules" but that is not life or job threatening) so that the issue continues to come to the attention of a wider group of people and, of course, speaking to people in RL about the issues. It is also important to debate the issues on open platforms such as MN and in RL to continue to hone arguments, to get more people thinking about the issues (whatever conclusion they come to) and because there is always a risk of echo-chamber mentality if opposing voices are not present. The trans activists are trying to silence women's voices, by moving onto private chats and forums women will have handed them victory and, more importantly, those on those closed forums will be wasting their time talking only to others who have already peak-transed. That may feel great but does not constitute an active defence of women's rights.
We need to keep talking to everyone and anyone (particularly those not yet aware of the issues) and ideally not on the feminist boards - get out there and weave the issues into your posts on other issues elsewhere on mn and everywhere else online and in RL. The only reason we have any traction (and the reason for MN getting scared and introducing these rules) is because the media are now talking about this - now is the time to ride the wave an talk to everyone and anyone. Now is not the time to be retreating to the back rooms and talking among ourselves. If you are moving to a closed chat - do it because you need to do so in order to organise real life action (in the way ManFriday is doing) otherwise please please use your voices on here and elsewhere to continue to raise awareness of the issues.

I was thinking I needed a break from MN, so I'm not sure I can keep up with another forum, but I'd really like to know where I can find you.

Does it not seem a bit counter productive to publicly advertise a private forum..?
Also, I'm on board with the gc position (particularly with regard to child protection) but I don't really get why you can't discuss the impact of TRA activity on women and girls within the MN talk guidelines?

How have they shot themselves in the foot?
They’ve managed to curtail free speech and driven it underground. I think it’s very disturbing indeed, actually.

Agree Mrs foggi
I game a lot which is male dominated and have been telling all the guys there.
A lot of them have daughters and it’s the sports stuff that has really opened their eyes to the total ridiculousness of this

Though they are a lot more forthright in their comments tbh

You lot here have given me the tools to be able to talk about this as not so clever with words
The tools are important

Me too please, but we need to stay here too.

I was only aware of self id and the issues around it because of mumsnet.com. An issue that I've shared in rl because I felt informed enough to do so due to all the discussions on mumsnet.com.

I also discovered how the tra behave through their own posts on these forums and links through these forums to twitter and news reports and websites.

Don't leave mumsnet.com. There are so many more people that can and will have their eyes opened.

Otherwise nonsense like that channel four rubbish with be the only exposure alot of people get.

@IfNot, have you seen the new guidelines specifically on trans issues? And the note on another thread by KateMumsnet on how it's now not ok to refer to a trans person's "natal sex"? Which is the crux of the whole women's safety issue!

I will see if I can post the links in a minute.

Agree, due to MN I've taken this issue to work and raised several challenges none successful yet and through that met up with other GC at work and now we coordinate. No one leave MN. Please.

Agree with mrsfogi

Calm, logical, factual debate has opened a LOT of eyes on the self ID issue. It’s important we stay and important we keep talking.

Pm me please. I've been a member on and off for years but plenty of relevant posts under this username

It doesn't matter how small your real life arena. Mine is just a little office. This is infectious. Mumsnet is the voice that started so many of these conversations.

@IfNot
Here's the new policy,
www.mumsnet.com/info/trans-rights-moderation-policy

And there are several threads on Site Stuff teasing out the implications. This one,
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/3277316-Mumsnet-moderation-of-trans-rights-and-gender-critical-issues-II?msgid=78649752

contains the message from KateMumsnet with the line Having said that TIM is not okay, it seems a bit illogical to allow other terms which hang upon natal sex.

Coming out of lurkdom too.
I was on the original Spartacus threads a couple of years ago under my old account.

Can someone PM me the link please?

I’m still unsure on the natal sex thing.

Are we banned from using acronyms that reference natal sex or are we also banned from any mention of natal sex? Which is actual sex, since humans cannot change sex.

Is that last sentence breaching guidelines? It’s scoentifically correct, how can it be?

Please can I have details of private forum too.

However I agree with PP that we also need to keep this public. Mumsnet has changed me from "can't we all just get along and be tolerant" to "bloody hell this has serious implications that are being dismissed and shouted down".

Please pm me.
Great idea - we need to plan.
Agree we should make every effort to stay on here too though.

Could I have a PM please and thank you?

Me too please.

Please can I have a pm too?

Actually it's quite a good idea to have little splinter groups go off to places like piston heads which are viewed as male dominated.

Can I join?

Are we banned from using acronyms that reference natal sex or are we also banned from any mention of natal sex? Which is actual sex, since humans cannot change sex.

As I understand it, we are banned from referring to a group of people of a particular sex who do not identify with that particular sex with any terms that refers to that particular sex.

So we can have the collective term trans people.

But if you want a collective term for either of the two sex subsets of trans people, you can't use one that refers to their sex - for example the one mentioned in the guidance that we now can't mention but begins with T and ends in either M or F*.

I have a major problem with this because I will not use terminology of my female sex to refer to people of the male sex. Therefore, it is now against the rules for me to use any collective noun for one of the two sex-based subsets of trans people.

*See how fucking ridiculous it is? The language contortions required to even define the new rules from a gender critical perspective? Let alone discuss any substantive topic?