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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How will we know if we have lost good women?

340 replies

loveyouradvice · 13/06/2018 20:26

I fear we will lose some of our strongest most vibrant voices, torn down by the current wordspeak policies..... Can we keep a record here of those we lose? I do NOT want to forget them.

I thought it was so telling that the GC would have happily kept all language (even the abhorrent Cis and Terf) ... while the trans-allies wanted to curtail as much speech as they possibly could....

To all strong GC voices - Please DO NOT leave us - your voice counts for more here than on any other forum.... Mumsnet is watched by the world and will be responsible for our keeping women and girls safe .... even if you have to clip your wings a little to get your message across, please hang on in here ... IT IS SO IMPORTANT

OP posts:
BarrackerBarmer · 13/06/2018 22:15

Oh, and on the subject of connecting in other groups, please employ a robust security method to weed out infiltrators.

There have been posts on trans forums claiming that they have infiltrated groups that sprang from MN.

loveyouradvice · 13/06/2018 22:16

I think this is a thread to celebrate and shout out all those who have lead us and we treasure..... they will be the ones having the toughest time and to hear how much they matter to us may just help a little in keeping them on board.....

Celebrating those we have .... celebrating those we lose (and persuading them back in time)

DailyMail so agree....

Great to have another space to talk openly ... but also to stay on here as here we can peaktrans more people than anywhere else....

Here is where ManFriday was born
Here is where the Daily Mail, James Kirkup and others come....
Here is where we will need to gather when the consultation opens and we agree together what we can do....

OP posts:
loveyouradvice · 13/06/2018 22:18

Echoing re infiltrators.... ManFriday managed it by keeping it small, checking out everyone's credentials and limiting numbers to those it could trust....

OP posts:
BarrackerBarmer · 13/06/2018 22:19

Oh, the deletions on the other thread have started Sad

Theinconstantgardener · 13/06/2018 22:21

Which one?

Hyppolyta · 13/06/2018 22:24

A few people off twitter have moved onto MeWe, the layouts a bit awkward but at least its a way to stay in touch.

Ive been around for years under a few names, but Ive had enough of this.

Adult males are men.
I will never use any word to refer to them that includes woman, or female.

LangCleg · 13/06/2018 22:24

I am still here and I don't think I've even been deleted today!

Mind you, I can't be arsed reading all the dozens of pages to see if I have been. So I might have been. No emails though.

I'm going to have to learn how to use Reddit, aren't I?

Ilikelotsofthinngs · 13/06/2018 22:26

With a private Facebook group there would be moderators that approve members. Members can only be approved by mods or invited by other members.
My experience of groups like this is as an abuse survivor using private support groups and we have had infiltrators but they are quickly reported and removed.
The main problem with private fb for our purposes is we don't need support that becomes an echo chamber that only we can see.
Reddit is probably the way to go. Although the new Spartacus thread is still up so that's positive.

PositivelyPERF · 13/06/2018 22:29

I am still here and I don't think I've even been deleted today

Careful, you might not exist, if you’re a very naughty woman. You know how words can stop people existing. 😉

Stilettosandan0venglove · 13/06/2018 22:30

As Barracker said up thread, many local groups are starting.

Here is a recent thread where you can perhaps find someone near you.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3259777-Lets-meet-up-find-start-gender-critical-feminist-groups?pg=1&order=

We have stringent vetting in our new group, that is good advice.

AngryAttackKittens · 13/06/2018 22:34

That's the thing, I can't think of any reliable method of keeping people with nefarious intentions out other than only admitting people you've known for years, which leaves out a lot of people who would want to participate and who're not dodgy, it's just that nobody has known them for long enough to be sure they are who they say they are.

On a side note, I really resent the level of distrust that this issue has created among groups of women.

AngryAttackKittens · 13/06/2018 22:35

Come with me to Reddit, Lang! My initial thought was, this site is full of MRAs, no thanks, but the GC forums are moderated by women who take no shit.

BarrackerBarmer · 13/06/2018 22:38

Has @thebewilderness gone?

I've noticed she's had more than her three strikes on the new rules thread

It's the bloody Hunger Games.

images of theuterati and thebewilderness fill the sky
I do the ovaries of steel salute

How will we know if we have lost good women?
mancheeze · 13/06/2018 22:38

Sometimes you just have to be unpopular, but right.

Indeed.

If it weren't for many of you British women, I'd be totally lost. I'm stuck in Ogre's British Columbia where he's still trying to get rid of Vancouver Rape Relief, trying to punish women for saying NO to Nixon (who is another man)

You should be incredibly proud of the work you've done. It's paved the way for many women in many diff countries.

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 13/06/2018 22:39

barracker

No she just posted again

LangCleg · 13/06/2018 22:39

Ok. I hate new formats but I will wander over when I've stopped panicking about how to get used to it!

AngryAttackKittens · 13/06/2018 22:40

Should we keep the same user names there for ease of recognition? I'm not sure how robust Reddit is in terms of doxxing potential.

AngryAttackKittens · 13/06/2018 22:41

Checking in with bewilderness now...has she for sure had 3 deletions?

BarrackerBarmer · 13/06/2018 22:41

Oh phew

Just one cannon for uterati then
(who I hope is coming back)

Datun · 13/06/2018 22:42

Sometimes you just have to be unpopular, but right.

I have no idea why they have done this. Because, in my opinion, they have gained fuck all.

It won't be enough, it will never be enough. And the goalposts will constantly change.

In a way this works in our favour. Because those wanting to censor us will be forever chasing their tail. Justine has publicly aligned herself and this site to free speech.

There is a point at which her assertion will explode in a cloud of hypocrisy if she doesn't allow us to continue to talk, albeit with various caveats.

I do believe she is sincere in her intention and is having to navigate impossible waters.

Therefore, as transactivists up the ante, which they will, I genuinely believe there will be a line drawn and she will draw it.

You can't publicly align yourself with free speech across national newspapers, and then stop women talking. All you can do is make rules that look as though you are trying to be fair/pc.

You can still say that someone's behaviour is fucking cunty or misogynistic, unfair, inaccurate, wrong, risible, manipulative, illegal.

There is still the pub, and Shady Pines, having closed down over the season for redecoration, is now open for business. Knitting class on alternative Wednesdays has temporarily been replaced with kickboxing for raging feminists, by popular demand.

And finally I want to say something to that poster who was concerned that they would fall foul of the new rules because their autism made it difficult to understand nuance.

Firstly, the nuance is manufactured deliberately. Please know that. It's a deliberate attempt to confuse. And yes, it might confuse you first, before it does others, but believe me, confusion is the goal.

And secondly, I don't think, for one single minute, that HQ will not allow leeway in that sort of situation. They may be making unpopular decisions, but they are not heartless, or immoral.

JuzzaL · 13/06/2018 22:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AngryAttackKittens · 13/06/2018 22:45

If the expectation is/was that anyone commenting on this topic must have the social skills of a top politician that is/would be incredibly unfair.

LangCleg · 13/06/2018 22:52

Should we keep the same user names there for ease of recognition?

I'll message you if I join with a different name.

Cantquitebelievewhatitscometo · 13/06/2018 23:00

I’ve been watching MN for years, dipping in and out. Never registered. Never saw the need. Until now. Posters to these threads have opened my eyes to how well meant and heartfelt accommodation of and welcome to a tiny number of people who didn’t feel they fit in with societal expectations is being insidiously twisted and exploited into wholesale restructure of the legal framework of women’s safeguards. It’s happening incrementally, but happening it is and it’s wrong. It’s just wrong. Post on, all you brave and clever and articulate and far sighted women. Who were born women. To wilfully misquote, don’t let the Atlees get you down.

thebewilderness · 13/06/2018 23:05

I am still here. One of the oddest things about MN is that they communicate with the person who reported but say nothing to the reported person. I did not know I had comments deleted. I do not go back through to check.

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