How will we know if we have lost good women?

[loveyouradvice]

I fear we will lose some of our strongest most vibrant voices, torn down by the current wordspeak policies..... Can we keep a record here of those we lose? I do NOT want to forget them.

I thought it was so telling that the GC would have happily kept all language (even the abhorrent Cis and Terf) ... while the trans-allies wanted to curtail as much speech as they possibly could....

To all strong GC voices - Please DO NOT leave us - your voice counts for more here than on any other forum.... Mumsnet is watched by the world and will be responsible for our keeping women and girls safe .... even if you have to clip your wings a little to get your message across, please hang on in here ... IT IS SO IMPORTANT

Come on TRAs. Your move.

My name is Kittens and I currently live on top of the cat tree in the hallway. Prior to that I lived on the kitchen table for a while, but it was getting too hot so I moved.

My name is Resistance and I live in the Borg collective

It's just the start. Testing the water. There'll be much more of it, I guarantee.

So far here on Mumsnet FWR every comment suggesting Clause 28 has been by what is know as a rat-fucker so they could screencap and post on twitter to "prove" that MN is transphobic. I assume your purpose is the same, foxyliz.

I completely agree with this. Debate requires both sides.

Are women human? was a popular debate among men in the days of the suffragists.
Do women have too many rights? was a popular debate among men in the 1980s.
Should women be allowed to talk about women's rights? is the current debate among men.

This whole site is basically Invalidation Central from a genderist point of view. The conception, pregnancy, parenting and relationships boards are surely even more triggering to a genderist than fwr. What the hell makes anyone think that a few radfem scalps will satisfy these people?

The conception, pregnancy, parenting and relationships boards are surely even more triggering to a genderist than fwr.

You'd think, wouldn't you?

I completely agree with this. Debate requires both sides.

I'm never quite sure what we are supposed to be debating? Sexism, the definition of women and female, whether we need sex segregation, does sex exist?

And yet it's perfectly fine to insist that they only date female lesbians, rather than lesbian trans-women. Apparently another genitally intact trans-woman's penis is considered to be triggering, but female lesbians aren't allowed to deny sex with a genitally intact trans-woman because that's discrimination.

I guess the question for MN is more about whether or not this is the right place for it.

Is Mumsnet the right place for women to talk about being transwidows?
Why would that be a question anyone would raise? How cruel to say such a thing.

My name is picasso but I have forgotten where I left my corpse.

Bewilderness, does anything they say surprise you still?

I spent last weekend with a trans widow, we went to the Cornwall feminism meeting together. This needs more publicity, not less. This is the other human side of the "brave, oppressed, misgendered" damage that is caused.

Picassospaintbrush

It shouldn't but it still surprises me when they let the mask slip.
That was a comment from SmG that caused many people to suddenly see who they really are.

I am so sorry your friend is going through this.

Crikey, I got SMGs measure on day one.

I just met her for the event, she needed accommodation. Lovely woman, her and their young children had their lives trashed and she was left bringing them up in poverty when he took all their money and property.

After what happened to Christine Bienvenuto (sp?) when she wrote a book about it I'm not surprised a lot of the transwidows are keeping their heads down.

foxyliz26

You may have confused my wording 'beyond self id' to be referring to scope rather than time. I meant beyond the outcome of self Id. Beyond that actual day.

If, for instance self id is passed, the campaigning will continue. 'Go beyond'.

In terms of lesbians and section 28. The trans ideology is deeply homophonic. I am not.

@SophoclesTheFox

I'd never read the trans widows thread. I assumed the comment from another poster: "whatever language they use they are not being goady"

might imply some of the language breaks the new rules. I said: And it is totally understandable that there would be a need for such a support. No one would deny that.

My comment about it being a question for MN was because MN have recently been asking people to consider 'if this is the right place for them' when breaking the rules. I wasn't personally questioning if it was the right place myself.

Apologies if it did come across as saying I didn't think it was the right place for women to seek support - that's not what I meant.

After what happened to Christine Bienvenuto (sp?) when she wrote a book about it I'm not surprised a lot of the transwidows are keeping their heads down.

That was a never ending horrific nightmare.

Supermatch, I can't speak for anyone else but I suspect I am not alone. I read all sides of this issue, carefully and sometimes those who are not gendercritical make me stop and think. Unfortunately now everytime you post, the phrase 'if this is the right place for them' will be the first thing I hear. Everytime.

Confirmation from MNHQ that the transwindows thread is safe:

We've no plans to delete these threads - we're not deleting anything which didn't break the previous guidelines, but we do expect posters, as individuals, to stick to the guidelines as they now stand. We really understand that these threads have been an enormous and much needed source of support for many MNers - and of course we look at everything reported in context, and on a case by case basis

So we'll see how things go. The hill I am prepared to die on is my right to refer to the father of my child as "he".

TinselAngel

I am extremely glad to hear that the Trans Widows thread will remain.

I am not an overly emotional person generally and I have no personal experience of what these women are going through but that thread brought me to tears.

I also found it extremely illuminating in the context of what's happening now.
These men are no longer satisfied, it seems, with forcing their wives and families to validate them but now wish to bring their fetish out into the wider world and make EVERY woman validate them.

Sod that for a game of self ID.

Actually that's weak from Justine. Really weak. I mean, shame. Shame.