How will we know if we have lost good women?

[loveyouradvice]

I fear we will lose some of our strongest most vibrant voices, torn down by the current wordspeak policies..... Can we keep a record here of those we lose? I do NOT want to forget them.

I thought it was so telling that the GC would have happily kept all language (even the abhorrent Cis and Terf) ... while the trans-allies wanted to curtail as much speech as they possibly could....

To all strong GC voices - Please DO NOT leave us - your voice counts for more here than on any other forum.... Mumsnet is watched by the world and will be responsible for our keeping women and girls safe .... even if you have to clip your wings a little to get your message across, please hang on in here ... IT IS SO IMPORTANT

"MN is invaluable because it’s anonymous."

I disagree. Mumsnet would be a much safer place if IDs were validated.

Well that was interesting. Just had a call from Amnesty about me cancelling my decades long support.

I told them it was because they chose Shon Faye to represent women and girls. And used a photo of SF dressed in bondage gear. They will be passing on my message.

You can understand the concern, I hope?

We do, that's why we donated to the crowdfunder to support a more balanced education pack.

There are people suggesting that trans groups aren't the best people to provide education in schools about trans people though. You can understand the concern, I hope?

Oh I definitely understand the concern. It would be unethical to provide factually and legally incorrect information to schools. Some groups do provide these packs - I assume you mean them?

It would be extremely unethical especially for a group who advocated for something like confidential disclosure to be involved in providing information packs to schools. Dont you agree?

Or do you see no conflict between a group advocating confidential disclosure and the uk child safeguarding framework..?

Snappily: a lot of people think feminists shouldn't talk about this to kids. Now that scares me.

There are people suggesting that trans groups aren't the best people to provide education in schools about trans people though. You can understand the concern, I hope?

I understand the concern very well!

Guidance which includes confidential disclosure, for example - this facilitates the abuse of children who have secrets, which is why confidential disclosures are banned in safeguarding 101. Also guidance that excludes parents and multi-agency working for SEND children - this is actually illegal.

It's not that this guidance is coming from trans groups - it's that the guidance is both dangerous and very possibly illegal. If the trans groups could clear up these issues, their guidance might better received.

• Bloody hell that comment has made me so angry. I appreciate that it might be well-intentioned, but it represents everything that is wrong right now.

Got a relationship problem? MN is here to help.

Got a relationship problem and your partner has told you they are trans? Off you fuck, we can't talk about that here.*

@ResistanceIsNecessary

It's been so refreshing to not have the attitude that you describe in FWR Mumsnet- it's been one of the only places Trans Widows have been able to turn for non judgemental support. Implications that it's ok to discuss all other relationships here, but we Trans Widows must just suck it up, make me furious too.

One shouldn't seek to strike a balance between the truth and lies, fact and fiction, objective and subjective.

This.

There are people suggesting that trans groups aren't the best people to provide education in schools about trans people though. You can understand the concern, I hope?

Trans people are not best placed to advise schools on policy and procedure, people who have specific training, knowledge and expertise are.

It is great when trans people, dyslexic people, autistic people come in to schools and share their experiences and talk about what they personally have found useful and less useful. Schools might like to draw on this to inform what they are doing but they have to balance the needs and interests of different groups with other demands and commitments

Really? What about vulnerable women? Those who need to keep identities hidden because of stalkers etc?

I am desperately ill because a guy started stalking me and harassing me about 3 years ago. Indeed, I have PTSD. I actually would feel safer knowing Mumsnet validated IDs.

Snappity with all due respect this is a hige forum with thousands of active members daily.

For the security you want, you'd probably have to pay membership fees to finance that

Why not find a forum like that?

They won't stop with the end of FWR, just like they didn't stop with the first set of trans rules or the second set of trans rules. They will snip away at everything. They'll try to effect a Cancer UK style change in all the front page wording for a start.

Yep. Nothing is ever enough for these people.

Verifying ID is the latest assault from TRA

It's the next pinch point. Expect to hear more

These things come out in waves from the mothership. The rules have gone far enough. Now they want the posters' names.

All dressed up as a reasonable request and stories of personal victimhood.

Anyone who cites Section 28 ... it's a mothership narrative

Tinsel I am not nearly articulate enough to be able to express how much I feel for you and the other TW. Your experiences are so important - to show the reality of what this so-called "bravery" and living of "authentic selves" actually looks like.

I cannot, and will not, sit back and watch women who are suffering and supporting each other being silenced in the name of "inclusiveness.

Only new born again tinsel and glitter names though. None of that deadname nonsense that they are so worried about people using. When ID itself becomes a complete joke, the concept of checking ID becomes meaningless.

And in the interests of fairness and transparency, it’s probably wise not to accept at face value the fact that anyone who says they are in a relationship with a woman actually means the biological kind. Especially in these days of wanting to be able to track a path through the smoke and mirrors.

The rules have gone far enough. Now they want the posters' names.

This seems like an isolated demand, but I wouldn't put it past them.

They can have my name and address. I am Ereshkigal and I live in the Babylonian underworld, I'll even print something out which says it.

They can have mine too Eresh, I'm Terry Leather and I live in '70s London