How will we know if we have lost good women?

[loveyouradvice]

I fear we will lose some of our strongest most vibrant voices, torn down by the current wordspeak policies..... Can we keep a record here of those we lose? I do NOT want to forget them.

I thought it was so telling that the GC would have happily kept all language (even the abhorrent Cis and Terf) ... while the trans-allies wanted to curtail as much speech as they possibly could....

To all strong GC voices - Please DO NOT leave us - your voice counts for more here than on any other forum.... Mumsnet is watched by the world and will be responsible for our keeping women and girls safe .... even if you have to clip your wings a little to get your message across, please hang on in here ... IT IS SO IMPORTANT

Once you see it you can never unsee it.

I should point out that i also had a problem with the 'if the advertisers think its ok comment'

But i take on board that MNHQ is a business and their bottom line comes first

This is scary. MN aren’t any different from GC critical feminists in the eyes of brave stunning authoritarian misogynists.
TRAs want to silence FWR people first, that’s true, but their end goal is that everything, anything woman-specific must either go or must include everyone, so same diff.

MN do not become safe from attack if they concede.

This feels so shit for FWR. MN is invaluable because it’s anonymous. There are so many wise amazing posters on here. I feel very nervous posting elsewhere for fear of outing.

Fully support the partners thread and there right to express in what ever way they want to and find whatever support they need. Infact a lot of the transgender forums have been running these protected sections for years and there are a number of other groups around the Internet that have been set up but there are always needs for more.

I guess the question for MN is more about whether or not this is the right place for it.

That's just amazing.

Did you really just ask if a website whose initial function was to support women is the right place for women to seek support?

That's extraordinary and extremely illuminating. Do you think that it's a feminist and woman supporting point of view? I'd be very interested to hear the reasoning behind it (and I'll be brutally honest here, so I can't be accused of bullying or snidiness or whatever: I'm interested because I think it provides an insight into just how little you think of women. You might prove me wrong I suppose.)

Yep the Transwidows thread is a very important place for women to get support and if that is ever touched I will kick off, three strikes be damned. I think it is covered by the 'context' part of the guidelines.

And it is totally understandable that there would be a need for such a support. No one would deny that. I guess the question for MN is more about whether or not this is the right place for it.

Supermatch why wouldn't mumsnet be the right place for it? I really don't understand. The transient thread is about women supporting each other to recognise patterns of abusive behaviour and escape abusive relationships.

Surely Mumsnet is the perfect place for it?

Chatty sooooo true. They won't stop with the end of FWR, just like they didn't stop with the first set of trans rules or the second set of trans rules. They will snip away at everything. They'll try to effect a Cancer UK style change in all the front page wording for a start.

And it is totally understandable that there would be a need for such a support. No one would deny that. I guess the question for MN is more about whether or not this is the right place for it.

I missed this.

I echo what Acorn has said - this forum is for women to support one another. God knows most of the web is male dominated, women are allowed somewhere to support one another.

I'm getting tired of people trying to shut these spaces for women down. I've seen it far too often in recent years.

It's a thread to support women who are being gaslighted and emotionally abused. What makes it worse is that current fashionable opinion is that they need to support their partners with open arms, declare themselves "lesbians" and sail off into the rainbow-coloured sunset without a backward glance. Meaning that it's very difficult to verbalise their struggles publicly because the prevailing group-think is that their partner is lauded and applauded for their "bravery" and who gives a fuck about collateral damage.

So if MN is not the right place for it, then you'd better tell MNHQ to sack off the Relationships board altogether.

I guess the question for MN is more about whether or not this is the right place for it

Wow. Pure, unadulterated misogyny for the win!

If not on Mumsnet, then where?

Bloody hell that comment has made me so angry. I appreciate that it might be well-intentioned, but it represents everything that is wrong right now.

Got a relationship problem? MN is here to help.

Got a relationship problem and your partner has told you they are trans? Off you fuck, we can't talk about that here.

Datun This is long game. One that will likely go beyond the self id law.
so you do have another hidden agenda ? Datun would this involve re introducing a Clause 28 type rule against us lesbians and gay men ?
who are nostly anti self id , but not anti old school trans !

us lesbians got very jumpy after one feminists was distanced by a mainstream womens group , we could see possibly we were next

that is where us Lesbian Feminists started to peel off

I'm worried about bewilderness

GibbertyFlibbert
As a woman in a relationship with another woman I hope children aren't seen as necessary to validate womanhood. I am sure you meant no offence but validation through motherhood is really quite a misogynist view and I wouldn't like to see it get traction.

Well said GibbertyFlibbert , some of these posters want to crush lesbians , gay men , along with all trans people

now they have started to attack us Lesbians already

Datun This is long game. One that will likely go beyond the self id law. so you do have another hidden agenda ? Datun would this involve re introducing a Clause 28 type rule against us lesbians and gay men ?

Good grief absolutely no one has even said such a thing. I can’t let that go I’m afraid. Multiple posters have expressed that they are worried about the impact of trans ideology on lesbians and gay people because it’s so homophobic.

Absolutely no one on here has called for a clause 28 against transpeople. Nobody.

Foxy - where are the posts attacking lesbians? The one which prompted Gibb's reply wasn't an attack, it was pointing out the biological difference between women and men which is based on their reproductive organs, not saying that motherhood per se equals womanhood.

Multiple posters have expressed that they are worried about the impact of trans ideology on lesbians and gay people because it’s so homophobic
Exactly, Bowlo

One that will likely go beyond the self id law. so you do have another hidden agenda ? Hardly hidden. The agenda is to stop women's rights being eroded.

There is no need to eradicate/erode/belittle any groups rights at the expense of another. If TRAs want more rights let them argue for them... just not acquiesce to them taking/ changing the rights of women!

If that was to happen then I can almost guarantee that most feminist women would actively support them. I say almost as I am not as certain of this as I was a year ago - because the actions of aggressive TRA shouters have managed to change lots of minds, mine included.

And no, at no point did I mean transpeople in general, just the loud, aggressive activists who seem set on causing lots and lots of problems, problems that, as you rightly say, will go far far beyond Self ID. That's why we are shouting back!

Remember, women, as a class, did not start this. TRAs, as a class (often separate from trans people) started this and are continuing it, loudly, aggressively,!

There's a fuck of a lot of lesbians on FWR and in every gender critical organisation I know so it might be a little bit disingenuous to suggest that this is a hostile place for them.

Seriously, find me a post on here where a GC feminist is attacking lesbians or asking for any kind of anything akin to clause 28. I would be incredibly surprised.

The long game behind self ID? Well who knows but stripping rights from women, safeguarding from children seems not terribly paranoid. My long game is preventing that from happening- preventing anything that strips rights and protections from women and children and minorities

Absolutely no one on here has called for a clause 28 against transpeople. Nobody.

There are people suggesting that trans groups aren't the best people to provide education in schools about trans people though. You can understand the concern, I hope?