How will we know if we have lost good women?

[loveyouradvice]

I fear we will lose some of our strongest most vibrant voices, torn down by the current wordspeak policies..... Can we keep a record here of those we lose? I do NOT want to forget them.

I thought it was so telling that the GC would have happily kept all language (even the abhorrent Cis and Terf) ... while the trans-allies wanted to curtail as much speech as they possibly could....

To all strong GC voices - Please DO NOT leave us - your voice counts for more here than on any other forum.... Mumsnet is watched by the world and will be responsible for our keeping women and girls safe .... even if you have to clip your wings a little to get your message across, please hang on in here ... IT IS SO IMPORTANT

I think we can safely say about this latest debacle, 'if that's free speech, I'm a banana'

Bewilderness - you're still here.

"The poster on the thread which started this had a long MN history. Nothing suggested she was not a woman- many of her posts referred to issues re children and childbirth. I can't remember exactly who called her a man. Your potato posts backed up that calling out and they and the original call out were deleted."

As a woman in a relationship with another woman I hope children aren't seen as necessary to validate womanhood. I am sure you meant no offence but validation through motherhood is really quite a misogynist view and I wouldn't like to see it get traction.

Unless you know what a woman is, that is a profoundly pointless thing to say. Do you know what a woman is? If not, please don't use words you don't understand.

Children aren't necessary to womanhood and nor is the ability to bear children. The only thing necessary is being of the sex that bears children.

Lots of posters throughout Mumsnet state the fact that anyone and claim to be anyone here and have experiences they don't have, Mumsnet themselves say as much on the top of relationship board.

So why is this example being singled out?

I bet I'm being reported right now 🙄

I wonder if there's a "three strikes and you're out" policy on vexatious reporting. Because there are some posters who must have reported about 300 posts in the last two days.

I bet there are TRA spreadsheets

enoughisenoughtoday
People are right about the word spreading. This is a leading article in the Times today:
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/assaults-on-free-speech-are-led-by-the-left-l2r8t9t9p?shareToken=ac46a62e9b536fec827a7f829b866706

You can register for free then comment or recommend other people's comments....

Tangent - we often say "dont be a turnip" in our house.

Bewilderness I will not "repent"

Your behaviour on that thread was horrible. MNHQ clearly agreed given how many deletions you got. You are now doing a wide eyed routine of "what me"? which you also did on that thread.

Your "potato" comments are used to try to discredit and stifle posters you don't agree with.

Report me. I don't care.

It wouldn't surprise me if people register just to report posts. MN did say multiple pointless reports would be dealt with, but suspension and blocking isn't going to bother those posters. It's their intention to cause disruption not to use MN for support.

As a woman in a relationship with another woman I hope children aren't seen as necessary to validate womanhood. I am sure you meant no offence but validation through motherhood is really quite a misogynist view and I wouldn't like to see it get traction.

No not at all. But it is a bit odd to declare as that happened that a poster who had posted of her experiences of childbirth is really a man and to keep on insisting she is a man.

It's a relay and those trying to shut the conversation down have vastly underestimated how many women are waiting in the wings ready to take the baton when needed.

This ( I'm a long time lurker )

We can't underestimate TRA resources tho

Money, numbers and tech experience, plus a huge number of true believers whose obsession with identity has been cultured and groomed online.

I’ve been lurking on FWR for months and am immensely grateful to the posters here who opened my eyes to reality. Thank you. I hope you stay. I was an unquestioning liberal ally who had no idea about the transactivists’ agenda. I’m paying attention now (here, on Twitter, and on Reddit), and I think they underestimate just how many of us there are.

Not sure if they're on this thread but I'd be interested to know how any of the regular 'you're a woman if you feel like one' posters would feel if the new guidelines did mean we lose good women from this board.

Would they see it as a silencing of women and a shutting down of debate or would they celebrate it as clamping down on abuse?

Money, numbers and tech experience, plus a huge number of true believers whose obsession with identity has been cultured and groomed online.

Yes, MRAs are great at grooming - as I have observed on some threads when they try to "befriend" a woman. Seems like MN is the latest target

woman

Ive noticed that 'befriend a woman' thing before

Im polite on here

But im not fucking stupid

Ive noticed that 'befriend a woman' thing before

Im polite on here

But im not fucking stupid

Awesome - I am pleased this topic has come up as I did wonder whether to raise it somewhere for those who are not as net-savvy to grooming

I think I must be stupid!!🤔 what's all this about then?

@AngryAttackKittens

A techy friend of mine has volunteered to make a forum if everyone here who's either bailing or about to be forced out would like one. Obviously we'd have to be figure out a way to ensure that we weren't welcoming a Trojan horse with doxxing intentions, not sure how to do that.

I think this is a brilliant idea and would be behind it.

I've been here for about 12 years.... but I'm happy to be banned. I won't leave.

Just to suggest another place we could potentially go is "Discord"

Someone could set up a community page on there. It is pretty easy and self-explanatory to use. It does advertise itself as a Gamers answer to Skype but I've found it to be so much more than that. You can create separate chats on there and create all sorts of rules as admins really easy.

I've been on mumsnet for several years but only this forum for a few months. I won't leave because this form opened my eyes to the way the trans movement has changed and has started trying to change the meaning of words and affect women's rights and spaces.
I'm happy to avoid using a few words to keep the debate open and hope that in the future the word woman will automatically exclude people with a Y chromosome and the current consense will be seen as a "wtf happened then?" moment.
Echo chambers aren't the way forward although I think women meeting online and in person with no speech restrictions is needed as well.

Echo chambers aren't the way forward although I think women meeting online and in person with no speech restrictions is needed as well.

I completely agree with this. Debate requires both sides.

I do think a space for women without policing is also beneficial, there is room for both (as you say).

I think discussing alternative spaces is important in case this debate is completely shut down. I don't think these guidelines do that completely right now, although we may have to do a bit of language-dancing.