In reaction to the Government sex segregation Petition response, M&S are finally reconsidering their position on their sexist unsafe and undignified policy.

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I have had several discussions with M&S who were very much digging their heels in and putting male feelings ahead of sex segregation exemptions in the EA2010. I had another discussion with them today and they are finally looking at their policy again.

Please take action and message them your feminist concerns.

Further discussion www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3269463-Government-response-to-the-petition

Including links to a trans woman who admitted to throwing clothes in an aggressive act, at female staff in a woman's changing room.

Keep talking bewilderness, we love you.

Oh I am going to watch Ted2 this weekend

thebewilderness

Nah...yiu keep on trucking

I learn new things everyday...and i love it when you 'eff'

The only reason I got caught up in this debate was because I was on fb having a chat and asking questions about the GRA. I was told to go f myself with a sex toy, (I paraphrase for decency) labelled a transphobe and Terf. I was genuinely trying to find out. I traveled a long way to a woman’s place meeting and began tweeting about it. I’ve read so much now and have a library of articles etc. There is absolutely no body of academic evidence to support common assertions of Trans Rights Activists. Local Councils are changing their forms from sex to gender which is against the law Under the Equalities Act 2010, the nine protected characteristics covered by the general equality duty are: age, disability, gender reassignment, marriage and civil partnership, pregnancy and maternity, race, religion or belief, sex and sexual orientation. So eradicating sex from their forms is s breach. You should check out your local councils forms.

Ignoring the trolls, thank you so much to everyone who has been working on this

Thank you Amy, Sweary and all those who put in so much hard work, that allowed this chance to reclaim our space.

How have M&S reacted to you?

Are your friends and family in a position to let M&S know that they would like a return to sex segregated spaces?

I am not on social media, has the word spread?

I’m still catching up on the thread but had to reply to this:
This is part of the problem. The anti-trans arguments presented in the Feminism section of Mumsnet often only use school-level biology when the reality is much more complicated
I’m afraid my 2 degrees and 10 years of postgraduate training and qualifications would suggest otherwise Gibb and I’m not the only one. Women here are scientists, lecturers, lawyers, teachers, doctors and more. Perhaps you thought we were all silly baby brained women talking about nappies and prams?

The moral is that because of pretentiousness and social hypocricy people pretend to know about or agree with certain things because it makes them look better.

And because of fear, if you read between the lines and consider the power dynamics in the relationship between Emperor and subjects.

Hm. The robot on M&S chat seems to think they’re gender segregated. I said that sex segregated was my preference, and was told that they want their customers to be “comfortable”. Presumably not me. But you know. Other customers.

Anyway, the robot said it would be passed on to the In Store team. So that’s something.

Wonder if I should write a letter...

I emailed them and got a reply today...a big, fat raspberry! Completely ignored the concerns I raised. Expect standard replies are being sent out.

To be honest, they are running the risk of pissing off people like my late mum.

If she met a transsexual in a changing room she would have probably given fashion advice ('you need black tights to go with that frock, hinny').

If she met a man she would be extremely upset if he said he was actually a woman and not aan who had wandered in by mistake (she was born in the 1930s and would not want to be seen undressed by anyone other than dad or her doctor). 'Eeeee he's man and says he's a woman! Poor soul - are you out by yourself then? That's nice. Are you lost? Is there someone here with you? Now you really need to go to the men's changing room don't you?'. In her younger days she would have got quite fruity.

Who is going to argue with an 80 year old that she can't say a man is a man? Who would dare argue with geordie woman anyway?

My mother is in her 80's and shops at M&S...I have told her what's happening with the changing room and she is horrified, I expect all her friends will be too when she tells them.

My mother uses a walking stick and like most elderly ladies I've seen, isn't afraid to use it as a prodding device!

I was discussing this with a colleague and he was acting how it couldn't happen that, say, his 80 year old mum could go for a mammogram (where my appointment letter stated that all staff were female) and find a man with a beard waiting to manhandle her boobs into the squishy machine.

I said, well with self IF this could indeed happen.

'She'd refuse and ask for a real woman'
'She couldn't - this person would be classed as a woman'
'She'd tell him to feck off and leave then'

I wonder sometimes if people realize that they are being shockingly classist, for a self styled progressive, when they dismiss material reality by telling women to educate themselves on the beliefs of transgender advocates.

Bewilderness I guess you know this story?

I used to get an defensive urge to explain how I know what I know.

It has only been the past thirty years or so that I truly understood that most of the time when women are trying to have a discussion the men are trying to win a debate.

So, I wrote to M&S and part of their response to me was to tell me that, even though I'd explicitly said that both I and my daughters feel excluded by their new policy, I wasn't really excluded and they were doing all this in the name of 'inclusivity' (how ironic). Gaslighting, basically.

They also told me that all their changing rooms are lockable and have mirrors so I really shouldn't worry (what a silly woman I am, pat on the head time). Of course, if I shouldn't worry for this reason, I do wonder why transpeople have a problem in the changing room of their natal sex. I did point out this double standard.

I also suggested a third unisex / gender neutral space as a better solution that includes all. They said they'd think about that.

What I didn't do, and I wish now I had, is state that actually one of my biggest problems with their new policy (and GG and YHA) is that they are lying to the general public. It's fine if they now want unisex changing rooms, or 'feminine' and 'masculine' changing rooms (which I feel is what it is really, gender stereotypes but unisex). But be honest. Because I know my daughter if she went into a changing room (or toilet) labelled 'women' and encountered a man would be scared and upset. Because she'd been lied to and misled (that's what she'd think).

Most people think that 'womens' and 'mens' means segregation by sex, not gender. So when they change that and are not clear and honest about it, it's a problem. And I do feel I'm trying to prepare my daughter for the world and it's made even harder by this sort of shit. Because it is lying.

Anyway, given how I was condescended to by their response I have no more time for M&S and will remove my financial buying power from their stores which I suspect will have a lot more impact than my words.

Ineedacupofteadesperately, I agree with your wording point.

I'm fine with M&S introducing mix sex changing rooms. But they need to be honest and change the signs. I know they are going through financial difficulties, but I'm sure they can find the money so they can be honest with their customers.

The M&S PR firm break data protection laws, they don't seem to adhere to UK laws.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5826567/PR-worker-suspended-spreading-false-gossip-David-Victoria-Beckham.html

baroque I used to buy all school uniform there so my business alone would buy quite a lot of signs.......agree it's about honesty and respect and not trying to do things in an underhanded way.

If they'd been upfront and just said all changing rooms would now be mixed sex / unisex then I might still shop there.

Had my generic response to e-mail about mixed gender, sigh, didn't answer any questions.
What can I reply with?

Thanks for your email about our fitting rooms.

We want our customers to feel comfortable and enjoy shopping in our stores. Our changing rooms, wherever they are located in-store, are available for all customers to use with the respect to other customers’ privacy.
Thanks again for getting in touch.

Floof - I'd ask them to clarify whether they meant that all changing rooms were now unisex or whether they meant that transwomen were able to use the women's changing rooms and transmen were able to use the men's facilities.

Floof, I told them I was still not happy and gave various examples of things that could still happen when they allow men into women's changing rooms, even with lockable cubicles. You can say that you won't feel comfortable unless the changing rooms are single sex.

I had a brush off email that completely ignored my concerns and said they hoped it reassured me.

Response from M and S to email.

Good morning
Thank you for taking the time to get in touch. I am sorry you have been left disappointed with our fitting room policy.
With over 30 million customers, we understand our responsibility to the Equalities Act 2010 and it is something we take seriously. We want to create a place where everyone – including customers and colleagues - feels included, and can be themselves.
To do this, we have to create a balance and we do feel our current policy helps us to achieve this.
Our customers are free to choose the Fitting Room they identify with and feel comfortable in, with respect to other customers' privacy.
This is because all of our fitting room cubicles have mirrors inside and lockable doors to ensure full customer privacy.
We are continually reviewing it to ensure it is appropriate for the largest number of customers and your feedback is useful for us to do that.
I’d like to thank you for taking the time to contact us and I do hope you can return to shopping with M&S with confidence in the future.

Kind regards

Emma Truss
Retail Customer Services
Your M&S Customer Service

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Registered office: Waterside House, 35 North Wharf Road, London, W2 1NW
Registered Number: 214436 (England and Wales)

On 11/06/2018
Dear M and S

In regard to your changing room policy . I am extremely concerned that you have changed policy.

Women and girls need to feel and be safe when they are vulnerable, ie undressing to try on clothes, bras etc.

Your policy does not not respect women and also does not respect the sex, based protections in the Equality Act.

I urge you to put the safely and privacy of women first.

I feel ashamed for you.