In reaction to the Government sex segregation Petition response, M&S are finally reconsidering their position on their sexist unsafe and undignified policy.

[OneHourTwentyFourMinutes]

I have had several discussions with M&S who were very much digging their heels in and putting male feelings ahead of sex segregation exemptions in the EA2010. I had another discussion with them today and they are finally looking at their policy again.

Please take action and message them your feminist concerns.

Further discussion www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3269463-Government-response-to-the-petition

Including links to a trans woman who admitted to throwing clothes in an aggressive act, at female staff in a woman's changing room.

I was in m and s this week wanting to try on bras. Went to changing room with several.Old bloke joined queue behind me. Now he was probably a harmless chap but how to tell? I felt embarrassed. Left without buying. Def will email them.

For those asking how M&S could tell, well it'll simply revert to what's been working the last n number of years. Men's changing rooms and Women's changing rooms. If you're trans and you look like a woman, you'll probably use the Women's and no-one will know different. If you behave appropriately and no-one gets a 'weird vibe' (and women know all about that) from you, you can just quietly get on with it. That's all the transsexuals I talk to want. Most pass. The ones that don't would never access these sorts of spaces until they do and have gone through transition.

However, if you are an obvious man then you will be unable to enter the Women's Changing rooms

Thing with changing rooms, the curtains can be really rubbish. There's always a gap however well you close it and I often feel exposed if I'm just in my pants.
Most men know that they don't go where women are getting changed so again it's disturbing that some men are ignoring our NO but sadly rather familiar

PCOS? What? Am I intersex now, and I never knew it! 🙄🙄

Most men know that they don't go where women are getting changed so again it's disturbing that some men are ignoring our NO but sadly rather familiar

Yes it is extremely disturbing. Says a lot about some.

This is part of the problem. The anti-trans arguments presented in the Feminism section of Mumsnet often only use school-level biology when the reality is much more complicated.

Oh goody, more 'advanced biology'

That is not what epigenetics is at all! Read a fucking book!!!

@gibbertyflibert

Don’t know about anything else. But you would certainly “pass”as a bit of a fanny

TERF is hate speech Fox please do not use it

Really? Under which law?

That would be the Transphobic part...you know, the “T”

I have never ever seen any of this "advanced biology"

Do they teach it at Med school? Which im.assunkmh a good grade at biology is required and it's not mentioned at GCSE or a level biology?

I think we need BowlofBabelFish again for the advanced biology.

'Some male features' = bollocks, right? In one sense or the other?

People claim to be able to tell a trans woman from a cis woman, it never quite plays out that way though...

twitter.com/sally_hines/status/1004358062164062209

That would be the Transphobic part...you know, the “T”

Calling someone/something transphobic isn't hate speech

People can of course tell men from women.

Online of course it's possible mistakes are made.
I have no idea who Sally Hines is or what sex they may be.

But we now live in an era where male people claim they are female, and female people claim they are male, so unsurprisingly trust in a person's statements about their sex has been utterly eroded. And those people who dishonestly represent themselves are responsible for that erosion. And far from encouraging a situation where we stop caring, they've created a situation where we start honing our skills of perception that distinguish the sexes.

I think my ability to spot a male poster on mumsnet, even one who claims to be female, is pretty impressive, considering I've nothing more than text to go by. I'm not infallible, but I'm right more often than I'm wrong.

Real life is much, much easier.

Some males pretend (or convince themselves) they have no idea what biology is, and dont understand what a woman is, so think they can claim ownership of it.

This doesnt mean they cant be women.
Its doesnt mean they can enter women spaces.

They are still males. Males that are either remarkably stupid, or very dangerous.

Why else would they insist on entering women spaces are being endlessly told they arent welcome?

By entering a female space, they have already proved they have no respect for women or their boundaries. They are exactly the type of males we want to keep out.

Hopefully shops start reconsidering and providing sex segregated spaces but until then I refuse to shop in any places that dont.

Just messaged M & S and it’s screening wouldn’t let me say sex was a protected characteristic! So had to say xxx

Hello people who think it is a kindness to lie to men and tell them that they are women. Look what you have done, sent society to hell in a handcart of good intentions.

These people seem to genuinely believe you when you say things like "you look more like a woman than me", they don't know that you are telling lies to make them feel better. They obviously think we can't tell that they are male.

You have demolished the rights of women and children, gaslighted a generation of school children, sterilised autistic and gay children all to make a few males believe lies! You created an almighty social mess, bullied women and told lies to vulnerable people. You need to take a long hard look at your behaviour and the consequences.

You have to write sex as s e x

www.quora.com/What-does-the-emperor-has-no-clothes-mean

There is a fairy tale called "The Emperor's New Clothes." In the story the Emperor is a vain man and always wants the newest fashions. A couple of swindlers convince him that the clothes they are making him are of such fine quality that only the most elevated people can see them. He can't admit that he's not the most elevated person, so he wears the clothes in the palace, and everyone bows down and says what a fine set of clothes he has because they are afraid to contradict the Emperor. Then he goes out and leads a parade to show off his new clothes to the people (lack of foresight on his part, unless he thinks all his people are highly elevated.) Everyone pretends to admire the clothes except one little boy who yells out "But the Emperor has no clothes." The moral is that because of pretentiousness and social hypocricy people pretend to know about or agree with certain things because it makes them look better. And also, I suppose, that the honesty of the innocent is best.

This is part of the problem. The anti-trans arguments presented in the Feminism section of Mumsnet often only use school-level biology when the reality is much more complicated.

😂😂😂

What a load of bollocks. Literally.

@fucklush

It’s offensive and misses the point completely. It describes me as a bigot. It’s mislabelling many to refer to them as TErfs

It incites nastiness, will that do?

It incites nastiness, will that do?

Not hate speech then.

It’s offensive and misses the point completely. It describes me as a bigot. It’s mislabelling many to refer to them as TErfs

I'm pretty sure trans women being referred to as "Tims" is pretty offensive to them also. (an acronym for trans women which is a male name, purely by accident I'm sure ) why are you all so upset by accusations of bigotry? At least own it.

I am in my mid forties. I'd say in my entire life I have seen maybe five to ten people whose sex I wasn't sure of at a glance and maybe of those one or two who I then couldn't have said with certainty after observing them for a few moments.

Maybe I'm just some kind of super-sexer. I should get a job working for the MET. Or maybe that's something everyone can do.

TERF is generally inaccurate as its thrown at any woman who questions any aspect of transactivists rhetoric. Whether they are radical feminists, or even trans exclusionary (most radfems are not even trans exclusionary, they are penis owner exclusionary...because..radical feminism)

Its used as a term of abuse. In a 'burn the witch!' type way and usually is accompanied with a threat of violence.

I don't think its hate speech, but its clearly misogynistic.