Feminism and trans rights, please enlighten me

[CornishPasty82]

Hey, Been meaning to post here for a while. I’ce been reading a few of the threads on here lately and I’m wondering - Is it possible to be a feminist and support transgender rights? I would like to think it is but reading on here it seems many people think it isn’t?

I do understand some of the issues with “self ID” (ie people with penises in women’s prisons, shelters, etc), but then again - How many women in prisons have been sexually assaulted by trans men? Is this actually a real problem? (Not goading! Genuinely interested in the facts/people’s viewpoints).

I have lots of fabulous friends and a husband (all feminists😀) who raise their eyebrows and think I’m a transphobe for talking about some of the issues with “self ID” so I’m keen to inform myself more.

I’m interested to here from people with all different view points, and I’m especially interested to see actual data/facts on cases where self ID has resulted in violence against women (or not).

Hope it’s okay to post this, and thanks in advance🙂

Argh, sexual kinks. Autocorrect strikes again.

Thank you Cornish for this question. I struggle to get my head around feminism and transgender...I understand the need for sex segregation in curtain situations...as both movements are about equality it seems more important to focus on the safety of male inmates as it seems from the news they have more riots and suiside so more violence. I have met a few prizon gaurds who say it's very dangerous work thesse days, with staffing issues. A female gaurd was looking for other work even though she cared about the young men often with learning difficulies and mental health problems...they don't suddenly become mature and responsible at age 16-18... men inmates should have the same human rights as female inmates, don't you think? My only knowledge I have of female prisons is from orange is the new black and I know that's not going to be accurate. separate facilities just for transgender? solitary confinement if they don't like the area designated to them based on sex?

transwomen being subject to violence in a male prison is a HUMAN problem
What tosh.
Male violence is a very male problem.

If males are subject to male violence it is not women's fight.

TIMs being subject to male violence does not them the right to break down women's barriers and consequently put more women at more risk of male violence.

They need to sort it out another way.

opheliah..OK now I'm lost...Are you saying a women should never protect a man from violence, even her son or someone she has a son like relationship with?!!?

Why is it my problem that I can't take my daughter for a walk in the woods but my husband can? It's victim blaming and rape apologist to say male violence is a human problem. Women already make adjustments to avoid harassment and worse. What adjustments do men make to avoid rape? None.

@CornishPasty82 In which case I apologise.

These threads have been incredibly enlightening - even though I don't agree with all I read - and I hope they help you.

I seem to remember a case where a rapist transitioned fully in order to be put in a women's prison. As he no longer had a penis he couldn't commit rape and was considered safe. So he used objects to "rape" women instead. It was all about the power for him.

Clearly this is very rare. And a very twisted individual who was not truly trans but who was using a loophole in order to carry on offending. But that loophole meant women were attacked.

I can't find any links to this (very quick search) but if I'm wrong I'll ask for this to be deleted. Pretty sure I'm not though.

Embrace we are saying it is not a woman's problem to solve

Not the case I'm thinking of but a good example.www.thesun.co.uk/news/4400327/transgender-rapist-womens-prison/amp/

Are you saying a women should never protect a man from violence, even her son or someone she has a son like relationship with?!!?

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

It is not the reponsibility of females to sort out a male problem on a societal level.

If some males don't like the fact that some males beat up other males then it is a problem for males to solve.

Maybe by looking at male pattern violence and why males are violent. If males don't like it, males are the ones who can stop it.

Well I wouldn't protect my son by removing all sex segregated spaces or services exclusive for women because that makes no sense, and that's what TRAs want us to do.

Women can't solve male violence if we could we wouldn't need Women's Aid or women's refuges or women only prisons. Happen be, feminists set these things up to protect vulnerable women from males, and some feminists have also set up male only refuges/shelters too. Transgender ideologues want these to all become unisex and therefore put women at increased risk because we already know we can't prevent male violence even when the man claims to identify as a woman.

I'd call the police if my son was in trouble.

Well, Embrace, I don't have a mother-to-son-like relationship with any transwomen, so I'm not sure how that's relevant to the conversation.

Amazingly enough having a uterus does not make you the entire world's mummy by default.

OK, I just prefer to see thinks as human problems rather than women problems, think humanity...women are often disadvantaged but it seems aggressive (suposedly an exclusively male trait) to me to exclude men when taking about rape victems. By focusing in on women prisoners, you are not seeing the full picture.

Is it mean that I chortled?

WHy arent men causing a stink about male victims of rape?
Why not focus your disapproval on that rather than chide "aggressive" women for not including men?

Male rape victims can't fall pregnant. Won't need to think about abortion. It's completely different.

This is FWR, we are talking about the rights of women and girls. This isn't a general 'who needs help now' board.

Men have so much power and influence in society, they could do something about male violence and suicide if they put their minds to it.

Wow okay I totally agree that it’s not up to women to solve the problem of violent male behaviour, but the issues that transwomen face (neither belonging in male or female spaces) are a societal problem, they are a human problem which we should strive to solve together.

So fight for spaces and services for trans people.

And this is the feminism board, not the solving all human problems board.

(The solution is third spaces, by the way.)

Yes upstart I think that is perhaps what I will be doing.

Cornish
Oh DFOD with your comparing infertile women to men.

OP I would argue that in part, yes it is a societal issue - it is unfortunate that our society prefers gender stereotypes and there is a current trend for feminine men to be made out to be women and vice versa. However, transwomen are men and so should be included in the men spaces as spaces are segregated on sex - no one can sex change.

WHy arent men causing a stink about male victims of rape?

Exactly. Why is men's solution to the problem of male violence to give it to women to deal with?

Why can't they get their own house in order?

Why is it that they can just ignore it, moan about it and then hand it to women and use it as a means of justifying women's protections?