Feminism and trans rights, please enlighten me

[CornishPasty82]

Hey, Been meaning to post here for a while. I’ce been reading a few of the threads on here lately and I’m wondering - Is it possible to be a feminist and support transgender rights? I would like to think it is but reading on here it seems many people think it isn’t?

I do understand some of the issues with “self ID” (ie people with penises in women’s prisons, shelters, etc), but then again - How many women in prisons have been sexually assaulted by trans men? Is this actually a real problem? (Not goading! Genuinely interested in the facts/people’s viewpoints).

I have lots of fabulous friends and a husband (all feminists😀) who raise their eyebrows and think I’m a transphobe for talking about some of the issues with “self ID” so I’m keen to inform myself more.

I’m interested to here from people with all different view points, and I’m especially interested to see actual data/facts on cases where self ID has resulted in violence against women (or not).

Hope it’s okay to post this, and thanks in advance🙂

I am suffering logic breakdown there.

I don't think you're the only one.

there seems to be a line of thought that because some women are violent abusers then we should ignore that facts that most violent abuse is committed by men? I am suffering logic breakdown there.

Most abuse is committed by men yes.

I'm querying why a trans woman (medically transitioned etc) should be treated differently from any other woman that has committed a violent crime?

Request respectfully denied.

Och no one can make you. It seems pointless to use the words when you have no idea what they mean, though.

I'm querying why a trans woman (medically transitioned etc) should be treated differently from any other woman that has committed a violent crime?

Because a transwoman is not a woman.

Like 'most abuse is committed by men'. You don't know what that means. Whereas we all know that this includes trans'women'

Because a transwoman is not a woman.

A trans woman is a woman.

I don't think it's particularly helpful to keep going round in circles like this.

Not helpful to you, because you like to use words differently to everyone else on the conversation, and fudge your meaning thereby, so it's terribly unhelpful when this is pointed out.

If you are going to use the words women and men in a conversation, you need to be able to say what they mean.

don't think it's particularly helpful to keep going round in circles like this.

Then don't. Trans identified males are adult human males. Men.

Is there a legal definition of 'transwomen'? Is it a male with a GRC or a male who has 'medically transitioned'? (and is there a legal definition of that). Is it assumed that they have both 'medically transitioned' and hold a GRC or is it any man who declares themselves to be one?

This conversation maybe. There's a bigger conversation going on out there. Most people seem to be able to cope with context, nuance and some ambiguity.

Silly wimmins acting like penises can be used to hurt us! Our silly little woman feelings are unimportant, unlike the feelings of those with penises which should be centered at all times.

Some people are even afraid of escalators.

Trans identified males are adult human males. Men.

Is that what the law says Eresh?

Er not nuance: we have a meaning, you don't. It's not even a completely different meaning. You just don't have one.

Depends whether the specific adult human male has a bit of paper from the Ministry of Truth, SMG. I think you'll find the vast majority don't and are considered "transsexual males".

The law says they have a right to be treated as women. Not that they are.

Why should a transwoman be treated more favourably than others of her sex?

His sex

do the people advocating that transwomen be housed in female prisons advocate completely mixed sex prisons?

If not why not?

If not why not?

Because sex matters.

I'm querying why a trans woman (medically transitioned etc) should be treated differently from any other woman that has committed a violent crime?

What do you mean by medically transitioned?

Because I see many on this thread saying no to penises, or men attached to them, being in womens prisons. So I assume that you are against this also?

If not, then please explain medically tranitioned, if not meaning post op transsexual.

Also I am sure I have seen you arguing for self ID for GRCs? SelfID would mean even less than the minimal 'gatekeeping' that there is now, and thousands more male people being 'legal women'..regardless of even a diagnosis of sex dysphoria, let alone any medical transition (medical transition is not required for a GRC anyway). And prisons are one of the main areas that WILL be affected by self ID in a very negative way. When 'trans' means everything from fmeinine men, to transsexuals, to crossdressing fetishists, if all of these people can get a GRC and therefor be sent to a womens prison rather than a mans..well..it doesn't take a genuis to know how that will end up really. Even with the gatekeeping involved in the process currently, we have had male rapists in female prisons, offending again. Open the floodgates? It will be carnage tbh.

I could possibly understand the statement “trans women are women” if there was a clear definition of trans woman.

Super match game - do you mean the full scope of “trans” are women (just saying they are for example, would that be enough to be a woman?) or those that have actually transitioned?

You sometimes use the term “genuine trans women” - what is your criteria for genuine? What does that mean for those that are not considered genuine?

Ha - I am so slow at typing that baroquehavoc has pretty much said the same as me! It’s the vague meaning of trans woman that makes it difficult to accept the trans women are women statement.

It's calculatedly vague. Meant to confuse and obfuscate.