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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Feminism and trans rights, please enlighten me

293 replies

CornishPasty82 · 05/06/2018 07:38

Hey, Been meaning to post here for a while. I’ce been reading a few of the threads on here lately and I’m wondering - Is it possible to be a feminist and support transgender rights? I would like to think it is but reading on here it seems many people think it isn’t?

I do understand some of the issues with “self ID” (ie people with penises in women’s prisons, shelters, etc), but then again - How many women in prisons have been sexually assaulted by trans men? Is this actually a real problem? (Not goading! Genuinely interested in the facts/people’s viewpoints).

I have lots of fabulous friends and a husband (all feminists😀) who raise their eyebrows and think I’m a transphobe for talking about some of the issues with “self ID” so I’m keen to inform myself more.

I’m interested to here from people with all different view points, and I’m especially interested to see actual data/facts on cases where self ID has resulted in violence against women (or not).

Hope it’s okay to post this, and thanks in advance🙂

OP posts:
spontaneousgiventime · 05/06/2018 22:12

SupermatchGame If TIM's are women why do they have prostate?

SupermatchGame · 05/06/2018 22:36

Certainly for a post op woman with a GRC yes. They are more similar to other women than they are to men.

For those that are only hormonally transitioned then that is more of a grey area - I'm not sure. But it has been looked at on a case by case basis, and it should be in terms of risk. This trans woman was eventually moved to a female facility. www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jan/20/tara-hudson-transgender-prisoner-sues-government

Also I am sure I have seen you arguing for self ID for GRCs?

No you've confused me with someone else. I've said the opposite of that - search my posts. eg.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3263474-Posie?pg=9

SupermatchGame · 05/06/2018 22:39

If TIM's are women why do they have prostate?

Because they were born biologically male. Don't be silly. No one is pretending they weren't. But a person can alter enough of their physical and hormonal aspects that they can be considered the acquired sex for most purposes.

Most people seem to agree with that. The Tara Hudson transfer was brought about partly because 150,000 signed the petition.

Baroquehavoc · 05/06/2018 22:41

I wasn't asking for your opinion. I was asking if anyone knew of the legal position.

Also, 'post op' (again could mean anything) with a GRC is a very small number of males.

SupermatchGame · 05/06/2018 22:43

Baroque I was answering

TheGoal and WomanLife They did ask me.

Baroquehavoc · 05/06/2018 22:46

Ok, sorry.

Does anyone know the legal position?

NaturalBornWoman · 05/06/2018 22:51

The Tara Hudson transfer was brought about partly because 150,000 signed the petition I wonder if so many would have signed had they known that 'multiple surgeries' referred to silicone tits and acrylic nails, and that Tara liked to boast online about their 7 inch surprise and being a 'shemale'.

WomanLifeIsGoodish · 05/06/2018 22:53

Thanks super match for answering. So when you state trans women are women you mean those that have fully transitioned and have a grc?
That makes a bit more sense now.

TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole · 05/06/2018 23:16

But it has been looked at on a case by case basis, and it should be in terms of risk. This trans woman was eventually moved to a female facility.

Off the back of a ridiculous press campaign/petition that muddied the wahters a ridiculous amount, inluding stating that Tara was post op when this was a lie.

I am still pretty bitter that I feel for that. I signed that petition, and got a few friends to aswell. It was not until I joined MN that I learnt the truth about it all and realised the position I had put other female prisoners in.

Tara could have been segregated for their own safety if they were concerned about that, but they should have been nowhere near the female population.

Tara was a fully intact male, who had feminized their body somewhat ('SRS' was actually boob job, for example) and had learnt how to do camera angles well enough to pass. In a couple of photos.

I don't think hormones should make a blind bit of difference tbh. If the trans identified male(I use this as 'transgender people' come in many forms, and non-binary males could claim trans status...this way I mean all under the transgender umbrella who are male. I use transsexual woman for post op transwomen) feels unsafe around other males, they should be able to request segregation, like other males can for various reasons. But I don't think moving them to the female estate is a solution that should ever be contemplated.

But thanks for the answer.

On this whole thing too... I would hope that transmen would not be moved to a male prison either, regardless of how much they may want it (though I have never seen a story about transmen wanting into the mens, funnily enough). It would be beyond dangerous.

No you've confused me with someone else. I've said the opposite of that - search my posts.

No bother. I wonder who I mixed you up with.

Ereshkigal · 05/06/2018 23:24

Thanks super match for answering. So when you state trans women are women you mean those that have fully transitioned and have a grc?
That makes a bit more sense now.

Supermatch's definition of "transwomen" is entirely irrelevant given that it's not the one used by policy makers and the law.

Ereshkigal · 05/06/2018 23:26

Because they were born biologically male. Don't be silly. No one is pretending they weren't. But a person can alter enough of their physical and hormonal aspects that they can be considered the acquired sex for most purposes.

But they remain male. They aren't born male and then change to the opposite sex.

Ereshkigal · 05/06/2018 23:28

Certainly for a post op woman with a GRC yes. They are more similar to other women than they are to men.

They are not women, and they are different from women in every cell of their bodies. Because they are male. And women are female.

AngryAttackKittens · 05/06/2018 23:31

The idea that the addition of breast implants and artificial hormones makes a man more like a woman than like other men is astoundingly sexist.

mancheeze · 06/06/2018 05:17

['Because they were born biologically male. Don't be silly. No one is pretending they weren't. But a person can alter enough of their physical and hormonal aspects that they can be considered the acquired sex for most purposes.']

Swallowing estrogen and having a cosmetic surgery isn't what makes a female. There's no amount of 'considering' to be done.

A female is BORN female with the added benefit of being raised into femininity from the MOMENT they're born. A biological male spends ZERO time in a female body and isn't socialized into femininity from the second they're born.

J4nice · 06/06/2018 05:21

My anus plumbing is the same as any other woman's but only someone with as medical degree would know that

Not just some uneducated transphobes such as yourself

WomanLifeIsGoodish · 06/06/2018 07:50

Supermatch's definition of "transwomen" is entirely irrelevant given that it's not the one used by policy makers and the law.

It was more that I didn’t understand what point super match game argues from when they make the TWAW statement. It’s such a nonsense phrase (a bit like ‘60 is the new 40’ or ‘you’re only as old as you feel’ etc).

So no, definitely not relevant to the law but helps when trying to understand the motivation behind people’s posts.

Pratchet · 06/06/2018 08:41

SMG doesn't know what woman, man, trans or genuine means so it's hopeless from the off.

Ereshkigal · 06/06/2018 08:42

Precisely.

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