Study find trans kids thrive after early transition

[Wakame]

pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/09/02/peds.2013-2958

A study has found that young adults who transitioned in childhood through puberty suppression and cross sex hormones are thriving. Here's an excerpt:

"After gender reassignment, in young adulthood, the GD was alleviated and psychological functioning had steadily improved. Well-being was similar to or better than same-age young adults from the general population. Improvements in psychological functioning were positively correlated with postsurgical subjective well-being."

It's a small study, but of course, when the results are so unambiguous, they become statistically significant even with smaller studies. You can of course counter this study with more science - just find a larger study that shows the opposite.

Medical transitioning of children means they are sterile and unable to orgasm when they reach adulthood

You mean like forcing a trans child to go through the puberty that feels wrong for them despite knowing that it will leave them with physical changes that will haunt them for the rest of their lives and may drive them to suicide.

wakame are you aware that 80% of children who identify as trans will desist after puberty? Are you seriously saying that that 80% should be transed, just so the 20% don't have to go through puberty?

"The solution is to examine why children are unhappy in their gender roles."

It's not about gender roles - it's about gender identity - 2 different things (transology 1.01).

So does not blocking puberty in some trans kids.
But how do you know which ones, when 80% desist after puberty?

Wakame We appreciate there are some people who think they are more important than they really are. You are not answering questions, you are giving opinions. HTH

Terry is right, I should take my own advice about not wrestling pigs. Seaweed here has a long history that already makes it very clear where they're coming from - there's nothing new to learn here.

The solution is not to neuter them.

As far as I know, the first successful case was mother to daughter.
From a female to a female.

So does not blocking puberty in some trans kids. You know - like death for example.
You also know that we are not going to believe your scaremongering on the suicide rate in children who don't transition (as opposed to those who do transition, those who are gay/lesbian and those who have the same mental health problems as those "trans" kids also have). Owing to the fact that the data are rubbish. So you might as well give up with that tack.

You mean like forcing a trans child to go through the puberty that feels wrong for them despite knowing that it will leave them with physical changes that will haunt them for the rest of their lives and may drive them to suicide.

Our concerns are similar in many ways. It's just that you don't seem to want to accept the significant risks of blockers, hormones and surgery.

Transition as a young person leaves people with physical changes that will haunt them for the rest of their lives and may drive them to suicide.

What we're talking about here is creating infertile adults with little or no sexual function, if transition happens early enough. (See Jazz Jennings). That's horrific.

All this language, like you're using, that presents it as a simply choice - male puberty or female puberty? Take your pick is sugar coating and hiding the reality of a lifetime of surgery, medication, infertility, sexual dysfunction. That's grossly irresponsible.

"are you aware that 80% of children who identify as trans will desist after puberty? "

Here's an analysis of that claim:

medium.com/@juliaserano/detransition-desistance-and-disinformation-a-guide-for-understanding-transgender-children-993b7342946e

And here's another:

growinguptransgender.wordpress.com/2017/12/03/the-end-of-the-desistance-myth/

"Are you seriously saying that that 80% should be transed, just so the 20% don't have to go through puberty?"

Don't be silly. The purpose of a gender identity clinic is to identify the genuine cases. Puberty blockade allows time for that process to be thorough.

"a survey of 200 detransitioned ex-FTM, mostly young women."

It is inportant to understand de-transition so this is a good survery. It is also important to understand that detreansitioners are a tiny minority - one major study for example found a regret rate of just over 2%:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24872188

In other words, the survey represent a tiny proportion of transitioners. Similarly, a small number of people actually die from the effects of minor surgery - we still do minor surgery though.

" It's just that you don't seem to want to accept the significant risks of blockers, hormones and surgery. "

As yourself just how terrible the mental state of a child would have to be before yo were willing to contemplate hormone blockers etc. Well, that's the level these kids are at - gender dysphoria is so distressing that a huge percentage of trans people attempt suicide. It's really that bad.

Puberty blockers are not a harmless pause button - do you understand that? If you give children puberty blockers then they are at high risk of serious side effects that are irreversible and lifelong.

There is no harmless way to stop puberty. Every time you do it, you cause harm. That harm has to be balanced against benefit - so in a preschooler going through precocious puberty that may be justified. In a population where 80% will desist and the body is healthy and going through puberty normally there can be no ethical justification.

There is no mechanism for one sex to undergo the puberty of the opposite sex correctly.

Do you believe humans can change sex?

forcing a trans child to go through the puberty that feels wrong for them
Puberty feels wrong for a heck of a lot of people - male and female - I'd say it was more common to feel it is wrong than not. Yet most of us are not trans.

You obviously haven't read my post about us not listening to you when you harp on about suicide given the flawed stats.

So you just sit there and say LA LA LA PUBERTY FEELS BAD LA LA LA SUICIDE STATS and we'll ignore you.
Sounds like a good deal to me.

As SupermatchGame said:

*"There is no evidence for therapies to change gender identity or 'cure' transsexualism. In the entire history of medicine there is only one supposedly successful attempt recorded (I think, happy to be corrected):
jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/article-abstract/490883

This case is noted as being unusual in that the patient wanted to change their gender identity.

Also:

Psychotherapy with the objective of “curing” transsexualism, in order to get the patient to accept oneself as a man or a woman, is useless with the currently available methods. The transsexual mind cannot be changed into a false gender orientation. Every attempt there that has been to do so has failed
www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1665579615000071"*

If you know of a more effective treatment, post it, along with evidence of its efficacy.

"If you give children puberty blockers then they are at high risk of serious side effects that are irreversible and lifelong. "

If you stop trans kids having puberty blockers then they are at high risk of serious side effects that are irreversible and lifelong.

^"So you just sit there and say LA LA LA PUBERTY FEELS BAD LA LA LA SUICIDE STATS and we'll ignore you.
Sounds like a good deal to me."^

If only you were ignoring trans kids and the doctors who help them. You really should you know - they are saying the same thing as me.

huge percentage of trans people attempt suicide. It's really that bad.

So we keep being told. Repeatedly. And yet those statistics have been debunked haven’t they?

So then we need to look at why the idea that ‘let us do this or we kill ourselves’ is pressed so hard by TRAs. It comes down to the medical issues - the ONLY justification you could possibly envisage for giving such a harmful and damaging drug to a child (and lets be clear again, blockers are harmful, they are not a harmless pause button and they have lifelong, often catastrophic multi system effects) is if you imply that child will kill themselves otherwise.

But the suicide stats have been debunked. And the blockers are extremely harmful. So the risk balance is in favour of watchful waiting and psychological support (NOT affirmative chemical and surgical treatment) until puberty is completed and a child reaches an age where they have full competency to consent.

I remain extremely suspicious of anyone who wants to give children harmful drugs and interfere with their physical and psychosocial development. There is no other area in which this would be acceptable. None.

Wakame

I wonder if you share my concerns that reporting and discussing the vulnerability of younger people who may be transgender almost always includes reference to the high levels of suicide ideation and attempts associated?

The Samaritans have well established guidance about how suicide should be discussed responsibly in recognition of the very serious impact this can have on people who are vulnerable due to emotional distress:

www.samaritans.org/media-centre/media-guidelines-reporting-suicide

If only you were ignoring trans kids and the doctors who help them. You really should you know - they are saying the same thing as me.

What, like the Tavistock/NHS best practice being "watch and wait"?
I'd prefer not to ignore them thanks. Especially if someone gets their hands on my children and tells them that an identity crisis or dodgy mental health = they are trans.

"Do we treat Anorexics by giving them liposuction?"

If you treat an anorexic that way you kill them. If you support a trans child through transition, you save them. Think about it.

"But the suicide stats have been debunked"

What on Earth gives you that idea?

If you stop trans kids having puberty blockers then they are at high risk of serious side effects that are irreversible and lifelong.

No you don’t. The entire population of patients undergoes intensive counselling. You watch and wait. 80% of the patient population will reconcile with their sex.

One in three women will get breast cancer in their lifetime. Do we pre emptivelyvtreat all women with highly toxic chemotherapy regimens? No, because it would be unethical. It is unethical to give harmful treatment to patients who may not need it

Where those patients are minors, it’s not only unethical, it’s abusive.

What is supposed to happen to the 80% of children who desist and have been dosed with these drugs?

Wakame I don't think of anything you say because you talk crap.

"Everyone could just collectively agree not to encourage Wakame to keep posting here by not engaging."

It's up to you whether you engage. If you're polite to me, I will be just as polite to you and we can have a good chat about the science and the implications of it. Surely when you are discussing trans issues at such length, it's wuite handy to have an actual trans person with a fairly extensive knowledge of the subject to clarify various details for you?