Where do we draw the trans line....?

[loveyouradvice]

Really interesting reading all the Daily Mail comments on latest Man Friday article.... most seemed quite happy with the idea of transsexuals using women's facilities, but no transwomen with dangly bits.

This used to be my position - and may still be so... but I am really concerned the more I read about certain transsexuals (the previously macho late-transitioning type).... those with rampant AGP which leads them to fetishise women's bodies and being in women's spaces in a very mansplainy way.... I feel very squeamish about sharing space with them.... and was deeply shocked by learning that some comb bins for used tampons and pads and wear them to "feel more like a woman" and then celebrate and share this online with other fetishists.....

My suspicion is that for the sake of what one might see as the transsexuals we have long shared space with, out of courtesy and respect, that yes it is okay for them to be in some women's spaces .... But my concern is that with TRAs being so active and the transgender movement steamrollering ahead, that more of the aggressive AGP type are going to feel liberated to come out of the closet and into our spaces....and the balance will shift

I know this is just academic - given that focussing on No Self-Id is our priority - but would be very interested in hearing what other's think as I try to clarify my own position

Making a declaration under self ID is like changing your name by deed poll - not something people can do for half a day when they feel like it.

Perverts are always going to pervert - and are no more likely to identify as trans than any other creep.

And it's easy enough to put on a pair of overalls to access any single-sex space waving a work order.

Perverts are always going to pervert - and are no more likely to identify as trans than any other creep. And yet... so many have, so well documented, over such a long period of time, depending on which countries you look at! So many threads that link to them too!

Mmmm!

Then I suggest you take it up with all the Starbucks outlets across the country that have always had unisex toilets.

So you think the law will be that trans women will have to show their self declaration documents before being given access to sex segrated spaces?

Here you are: a short list of people who changed their names by deed poll because they felt like it.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/meet-the-people-whove-given-themselves-88857.amp

I'm sorry but I think self ID is a terrible idea for a number of reasons. That doesn't mean I'm anti trans.

I've moved my views across the spectrum from Tw are W to now believing that facilities etc should be separated by biological sex. If people who claim to be trans don't want to use the spaces/sports/prisons of their biological sex then let them campaign for a third space.

I understand why some organisations like WPUK tread more of a middle line - in the short term it's likely to be more successful. But I'm with the others who are out here pulling the Overton window back to sanity and safety.

So you really think people will change their identity to female for kicks? Go through all the paperwork for a prank? When gender is more core to people's sense of identity than their names?

And that gender identity being so core, I just can't justify denying someone their identity, however it's expressed (assuming of course no harm to others).

And re any prevalence of perverts - do you have a statistical breakdown?

Women's spaces for women. No exceptions.

And no penises / testicles.

And why is a feminist board reducing a whole spectrum to birth-males? What about trans-men?
Quite new to gender critical feminism I see.

Dame. Nice diversion not answering my question.

I didn't raised the issue of perverts peak did. I merely responded. But if you want to know more about AGP there are plenty of threads on here you can read.

Well here's just one
Target voyeurism and sex crimes trebled after changing room policy allowed self identification

Like other posters here, I have moved from the "of course transwomen are women" to "you were born fe/male, you remain fe/male for the rest of your life."

I don't care what you self-identify as, your sex is immutable.

So you really think people will change their identity to female for kicks? Go through all the paperwork for a prank? The point would be that they wouldn't have to!

No to self id and nobody allowed into Female spaces without a GRC. It’s unbelievable that a passport in a person’s preferred Gender can be obtained without one.

I draw the line at sex. Trans men are biological female and as such included in female spaces.
I personally struggle with the idea that men who have SRS should be allowed into female spaces as I believe that only an extreme few (truly dysphoric) should undergo such extreme surgery and in no way I think this should be encouraged, this same goes for female to male.

DameFanny

0/10 for effort. You need to arrive with more than the same old debunked canards and a haranguing tone.

You're right...more fetishists will say that they are trans. That is exactly what has happened with the guy who wrote the story about the service station and used tampons. His profile on that site said how he was a cross dresser who didn't think he could be trans before but then realised that there were transwomen who were sexually drawn to women, as he is. Now he's going full steam into being a transwomen.

Kyanite ah another one of those things that never happens

not envy

What LangCleg said.

Wasn't avoiding any questions, wasn't using a haranguing tone. But Self ID is the gender declaration - I don't understand what you're talking about?

And why is a feminist board reducing a whole spectrum to birth-males? What about trans-men?

With all due respect to trans men they don't have testicles, a penis or a prostate. There isn't a trans woman in this world who gets rid of the prostate when undergoing bottom grs, it's necessary for bladder control.

DameFanny you said it was a process like Deed Poll so I showed you where Deed Poll has been abused. You then changed your opinion to say no one would abuse it even if they could.

For most people gender is not all consuming as it appears to be to some trans people. We just get on with life and if we're mistaken for the wrong sex we shrug it off. This isn't a dig, I understand for some people it can be very painful.

But there are a huge number of people, now and in the past, who have taken on the appearance of the opposite sex in order to do what they want. I even saw on the news today a cartoon about it! It tends to come from living in a restrictive country where gender roles are very strong and there are things you cannot do it you are the wrong sex. So yes, people are quite prepared to take on the opposite gender to get what they want, whether that is to do a job, socialise with people they would not normally be allowed to or for something more nefarious.

This isn't about shutting trans people out. It is about keeping women and children safe, dignified and able to fully participate in life, as the single sex provisions were originally intended.

Females only in female spaces. I actually can’t believe I even have to write that. For my mother, and my grandmother, that was a basic right. I don’t want my daughters to have to shove over, shut up and share.

@PeakPants
the suggestion that this might now become commonplace all of a sudden is quite frankly absurd.

No one, absolutely no one on this thread has suggested that. You make stuff up and blame people for it.

Why do you do that?