Where do we draw the trans line....?

[loveyouradvice]

Really interesting reading all the Daily Mail comments on latest Man Friday article.... most seemed quite happy with the idea of transsexuals using women's facilities, but no transwomen with dangly bits.

This used to be my position - and may still be so... but I am really concerned the more I read about certain transsexuals (the previously macho late-transitioning type).... those with rampant AGP which leads them to fetishise women's bodies and being in women's spaces in a very mansplainy way.... I feel very squeamish about sharing space with them.... and was deeply shocked by learning that some comb bins for used tampons and pads and wear them to "feel more like a woman" and then celebrate and share this online with other fetishists.....

My suspicion is that for the sake of what one might see as the transsexuals we have long shared space with, out of courtesy and respect, that yes it is okay for them to be in some women's spaces .... But my concern is that with TRAs being so active and the transgender movement steamrollering ahead, that more of the aggressive AGP type are going to feel liberated to come out of the closet and into our spaces....and the balance will shift

I know this is just academic - given that focussing on No Self-Id is our priority - but would be very interested in hearing what other's think as I try to clarify my own position

When considering older trans people, most are male agp. Trans rights validate and protect their sexual fetish at the expense of women.

I bet some can't believe their luck that their secret is now celebrated.

Younger trans are a different group, mostly young girls, who are sucked into the ideology at enormous personal cost because it seems a better bet than being a woman in a porn-soaked society.

Both need to stop.

But we are nowhere near the turning point yet.

It was always a mistake to introduce this pretence of men becoming women and we should have learned lessons that ratifying a lie is disastrous. We should never have lied to these people in the first place. You can't sustain this lie and it is becoming explosive trying to. My line is simply the truth. It's a hard line, but there it is.

*For decades this has hardly ever been an issue. Many women, myself included, were quite happy to share toilets, changing rooms and many other spaces with transwomen. And I doubt many men give transmen a second thought.

But the current TRA/AGP aggression has made me far less accepting. Once they started with the "We are women and so demand access to ALL female spaces, including refuges" shit I changed my mind entirely.

Purely because of the aggression, lack of respect and refusal to enter into open debate, I too would know say no men, at all!*

Exactly how i now feel about it.

"2. . I explained the history of wome's refuges etc but they didn't care. Some even demanded we take these places away from women as the trans community were more needy. I challenged that behaviour. One year later I found myself being interviewed under police caution."

twitter.com/hopepinkboots/status/1003150910661513217

Bloody hell.

Hope does nicely sum up how I see things currently

Hope Pink

@hopepinkboots

3, It became apparent that the trans community were entitled men who claimed life was so hard but on the other hand they were all well educated and had well paid careers. Challenging the madness has seen more police interventions. Banned from trans groups and smeared.

@lasqrrl

"Because yes, sticking fingers, dicks, tampons up the rectum is about the prostate. You may desist with the gaslighting now fms."

Ah yes, all of those things are exactly the same, length, girth, hardness

The notion that a man can self stimulate himself with something as small as a tampon is absurd

"Prostate massage, done yourself with just your own finger, can be a bit tricky unless you are using a tool. To get the proper stimulation to the entire gland, you're going to need something a little longer than a normal finger.

So I am going to tell you how to do that now.

Historically, many different "instruments" have been used, from cigar tubes and dildos to carrots."

www.prostate-massage-and-health.com/prostate-massage.html#.WxOvXuDTX3A

All tampons are not Lillets. You also assume a fetishist would only use one.
What you are talking about is achieving an orgasm by stimulating the entire prostate.
Whereas smaller objects are used to provide longer term stimulation, and fetish objects can fall into that category. Especially when the fetishist is in public, as there is the added frisson of the people around not knowing what he is doing.

@upstartcrow

The original point I was replying to and attempting to debunk was " "Prostate location is significant in these cases." cases meaning transwomen inserting tampons into their anus. The implication is that the tampon is stimulating the prostate. There is nothing in that original quote about getting off on the thrill of having it up there in public.

I'll say again, a tampon isn't big enough to effectively stimulate the prostate.

The notion that a man can walk around in day to day life with a tampon up there and be stimulated is absurd, has nobody here ever poked around up there with their DH?

Nobody here has gay male friends? Go and ask them their thoughts and get back to me instead of accusing me of "gaslighting"

On the posts that showed the tampon stealing chats on another chat room, one AGP talked of inserting the tampon then removing it after masterbation... I'm sure it wasn't just all psychological stimulation.

The notion that a man can walk around in day to day life with a tampon up there and be stimulated is absurd Yet that is what some AGPs do. That was the point being made!

I know, it reallly does begger belief but some do walk round with a tampon up their arse, just as women walk round with them inserted in the usual place. All day long, in public, everywhere. And they take them out again too!

Yes they talk about it a lot online and share ideas.

"I know, it reallly does begger belief but some do walk round with a tampon up their arse, just as women walk round with them inserted in the usual place. All day long, in public, everywhere. And they take them out again too!"

False equivalence comparing men with tampons and women with tampons - completely different purposes.

I'll say again: inserting a tampon into a mans arse isn't going to reach the prostate effectively, therefore any physical stimulation is going to be minimal. Mental thrills from doing something kinky/taboo maybe, physical thrills = slim.

Like I said, go ask your gay male friends if they ever contemplated sticking a tampon up their arse to stimulate the prostate. And prepare to be laughed at

We're properly down a cul de sac here.

If some people want to stick tampons up their bum, well that's their prerogative. It has nothing to do with where my 'line' is on trans issues.

Even the used san pro thing (yuk) is not a particularly strong reason to exclude men from women's toilets.

False equivalence comparing men with tampons and women with tampons - completely different purposes. Don't tell me, tell AGPs, it is their fetish I don't claim to understand it.

Just as not being the owner of a prostate gland I couldn't tell you if a tampon up the arse could in any way be stimulating. But I would consider that any contact could be...

And gay men are not AGP! So of course they would laugh!

"And gay men are not AGP! So of course they would laugh!"

Gay men have prostates

Gay men who bottom indulge in anal sex because it stimulates the prostate

So if a trans woman as alleged earlier is sticking tampons up there to stimulate the prostate then no reason why a gay man or even a heterosexual man would enjoy similar tampon induced prostate stimulation

But has anyone heard of gay men doing that?

Of course they haven't, because tampons aren't big enough to reach the prostate.

Therefore any physical motivation for trans women to stick tampons up their bum is minimal.

Erm, I think you might need to brush up on what AGP men find sexually stimulating!

And, again, transwomen are NOT AGP!

Like I said, go ask your gay male friends if they ever contemplated sticking a tampon up their arse to stimulate the prostate. And prepare to be laughed at

Whoa! Step back and think about what you have just posted.

Of course you can stimulate the prostate with a tampon, especially those with the plastic applicator, it would be difficult with a used tampon unless you saved up the plastic applicator for insertion - but why would anyone put a used tampon up their bum.

men have longer fingers than women.

The prostate is approximately 10 to 15 cms from the anal opening.

Most vaginas are 10 cms to 15 cms long.

I really hope Zinnia is not lurking on this thread

@curiousaboutsamphire

"Erm, I think you might need to brush up on what AGP men find sexually stimulating!"

You are still having difficulty distinguishing between physical sexual simulation and mental stimulation.

Again (why is this so hard to grasp) the original claim was that the location of the prostate is why tampons are being inserted into male bums

I'm arguing that an ordinary tampon isn't long enough or big enough to effectively reach and stimulate the prostate. This has nothing to do with the taboo or mental stimulation from inserting it

@placemat

If you're now saying that a tampon plus an applicator can reach the prostate then yes I agree, but I doubt they're walking round with an applicator shoved up there all day. And I did link earlier a site suggesting dildo esque sex toys as being able to reach it

The same site says men can't effectively use their own fingers due to position of the gland

This is a really stupid tangent that is being continued by people that aren't grasping the very nature of the tangent.

For the final time: any trans woman sticking a tampon for the bum isn't doing it to stimulate the prostate

Heavens above. The stuff fmsfms gets fixated on is a never ending suprise.

Precisely Picasso.

It takes two to tango, amazing how the people that fixate on my replies miss that simple fact

Good way to divert attention from the actual issue and focus on something so fucking pathetic that it somehow looked like all us wimmins are simply hysterical about nothing. I've seen some gaslighting before but it reaches a new low arguing whether a tampon is long enough to-reach a prostate.

How about focusing on the actual problem of violating women's spaces to ensure some males narcissistic tendencies are met.