No True Transwoman - transadvocates question whether TW is 'genuine' after said TW sexually harasses women in homeless shelter

[CaitlynsCat]

abc30.com/3514544/

'It says the shelter requires them to shower in groups, and it opened its doors to a person who identified themself as a transgender woman who made lewd and sexually inappropriate comments, and leered at them while they were naked.

"This is the biggest fear they bring up, that you're going to have people who may not even be transgender in bathrooms and settings where people are naked and their privacy rights are being violated," said Peter Kapetan, who filed the lawsuit on behalf of the women.

Poverello House administrators tell Action News federal law says they have to treat a person identifying as a woman as a woman -- and there's no way to test whether it's true.'

'
The women say they repeatedly complained to staff members, but were told if they didn't respect the person's decision to identify as a woman, and if they refused to take showers at the same time, they'd get kicked out of the shelter.
'

'Karen Adell Scot, a local transgender advocate, even offered to train Naomi's House employees on how to recognize people just pretending to identify as the opposite gender.'

And I'm not including transexuals in this. They have a mental disorder to do with genital dysphoria. It's all these people saying they are women when they're not.
It's nuts. It's doing my head in.

And yes obviously if there is a medical issues it's ausually possible to tell what sex they are by working out what gametes they would have made if they could have.

Huh, Supermatch's authoritarianism is really escalating.

Meanwhile, away from the internet bubble, 99.999% (actually more but a whole page of extra 9s would be messy) of the world's population define male as "penis, Y chromosome, can potentially make sperm" and female as "vagina, XX chromosomes, can potentially make eggs", and they also define man as "male adult" and woman as "female adult". No matter how much TRAs wish it was otherwise.

My inlaws all grew up entirely outside the Anglosphere and talking to them about this stuff is illustrative. Like most people they'll try to be polite and so won't run up to trans people all "oy you're a bloke/lady!"*, but in terms of what they understand man and woman to mean? Exactly what everyone else thinks those words mean. Even in cultures that have a traditional third category for effeminate gay men.

*(No guarantees for little kids who don't understand yet why other people expect them to lie about what they see.)

SMG is pretending to be reasonable while having no case to make and an excessive superiority complex.

So does that mean men who have had vasectomies are actually women? - you know, because they don't produce gametes.

Or is it just women who have to submit to this Alice in Wonderland defining of words?

There are four ways in which the meaning of words is defined:
•Historical Usage.
•Current Usage.
•Etymology
•Dictionaries

You can give different weightings to each of these depending on circumstances, but historically, woman has meant biologically female, currently the huge majority of the world consider woman to mean biologically female. Etymologically, woman means biologically female. In dictionaries, woman means biologically female.

The attempt to state it means other than biologically female is an attempt to redefine the meaning for political purpose. George Orwell wrote an entire book about such attempts control of language.

And where they are legally female but not had surgery then there will be some female spaces that they could legitimately enter (toilets, some refuges with single room provision) and some that that it wouldn't (open changing rooms and showers).

It's got absolutely nothing to do with whether they have a GRC either. Stonewall penned Swim England guidelines called for women unhappy with male bodied people in changing rooms to be "educated." So they are pushing the idea that women have to suck it up. We see you.

You've misunderstood what Margaret Atwood was saying in that article in a way that's actually quite ironic. She isnt talking about gender critical feminists or womens reaction. She's talking about men in power, and authoritarianism.

I haven't misunderstood. She is talking about "change from being a man to a woman or a woman to a man" threatening men's sense of authority. She is explaining transphobia. I didn't say it was about women's transphobia specifically - but she is not unsupportive of trans people.

You could of course also say the same about some of the radical feminist lesbians who feel threatened by transitioning trans men: What is happening to our lesbian community? etc. They see trans men threatening their roles and their lesbian identities. That was just one example from Atwood as she says "When things are so wobbly, it makes them very insecure."

That doesn't just apply to men.

So does that mean men who have had vasectomies are actually women? - you know, because they don't produce gametes.

They usually don't identify as women either. I think you probably could have worked that one out for yourself.

Oh so it's more "iamawomanbecauseisayiam", then?

Oh really? When you cannot define man, or male

You can define man and male. It's defined in the gender recognition act.

Context. Context. Context.

you think you have the right to define MY boundaries?

The current law defines your boundaries. You still don't get to define other people's.

I haven't exploited anyone. I also didn't say that if you are infertile your sex in indeterminate. If a trans woman has surgery and obtains a GRC then she is legally female. Regardless of fertility. If an infertile natal woman says she is a woman, then she is a woman. If she say she is a trans man, then he is a man.

It's really not that difficult!

So you still have no word for adult humans of the sex that produces motile gametes, SMG?

SMG is pretending to be reasonable while having no case to make and an excessive superiority complex.

I don't need to pretend I actually am quite reasonable. Real life feedback informs that observation.

I bring you rational evidence based arguments that challenge your opinions and highlights inconsistencies in your ideology. You see that as a superiority complex? Is it easier for you to label me in that way rather than examine some of your own prejudices?

So they are pushing the idea that women have to suck it up. We see you.

No, there should still be bodily privacy. We've already discussed that.

highlights inconsistencies in your ideology.

Biology is not ideology.

Huh, Supermatch's authoritarianism is really escalating.

When SupermatchGame first arrived it was massive.

I posted the Lucy Massoud video, about a Lesbian Muslim Firefighter where she explains she will be out of a job if a gender fluid male such as the police fella and Pip Bunce, or any intact male, starts using her changing rooms and showers as it means she can't.
SMG's response was, so she may have to go into a toilet after a transwoman, she can get over herself.

A rage posting episode appeared shortly after, I don't remember the details. It wasn't nice.

Since then he toned it down someway but it's still there. I am using the pronouns associated with the masculine stereotype I identify in SMGs tone/language etc.

I haven't been provided any other to use from memory.

If she say she is a trans man, then he is a man.

Just pulling this out for newbies and lurkers as a perfect example of how ridiculous trans activism has become.

Male, Pratchet.

If said male goes through a sex reassignment programme and legal change, then they are female.

Again, it really isn't that difficult. Most people will agree with that, in principle. Most people meaning away from this internet bubble that Angry is talking about.

Down the rabbit hole we go.

Again, it really isn't that difficult. Most people will agree with that, in principle.

No they don't. Most people aren't aware that "sex change" surgery only happens in a few cases and most trans identified males retain their penises.

No, there should still be bodily privacy. We've already discussed that.

No that was specifically what the Swim England guidelines said was not a consideration. Keep up.

Yes it's a minefield isn't it Angry. Just trying not to offend by using the appropriate pronouns. It's not that hard. I haven't lost a piece of my soul in the process.

Btw your 'ridiculous' is another person's real life pain. You're trivialising again.

No that was specifically what the Swim England guidelines said was not a consideration. Keep up.

No they didn't - the head of Swim England clarified that and then withdrew the guidelines because it wasn't explicit. You keep up. We've had this conversation.

If she say she is a trans man, then he is a man.

If said male goes through a sex reassignment programme and legal change, then they are female.

Which is it? On their say so or after sex reassignment programme and legal change? Make your mind up!

No they didn't - the head of Swim England clarified that and then withdrew the guidelines because it wasn't explicit. You keep up. We've had this conversation.

They withdrew it because the Man Friday chaps made fools of their guidance. Keep up.

Picasso most people don't care about being in a toilet with a trans woman. And pre op or non op or post op you don't know what is there and there's no way of knowing. That was what I said.

I've posted some things in anger during heated debates. So have many others here. We can all make mistakes like that and many have. You're demonising me.

I actually don't care what pronouns you use. I don't feel the need to disclose my sex/ gender, and I don't have to justify my participation here.