No True Transwoman - transadvocates question whether TW is 'genuine' after said TW sexually harasses women in homeless shelter

[CaitlynsCat]

abc30.com/3514544/

'It says the shelter requires them to shower in groups, and it opened its doors to a person who identified themself as a transgender woman who made lewd and sexually inappropriate comments, and leered at them while they were naked.

"This is the biggest fear they bring up, that you're going to have people who may not even be transgender in bathrooms and settings where people are naked and their privacy rights are being violated," said Peter Kapetan, who filed the lawsuit on behalf of the women.

Poverello House administrators tell Action News federal law says they have to treat a person identifying as a woman as a woman -- and there's no way to test whether it's true.'

'
The women say they repeatedly complained to staff members, but were told if they didn't respect the person's decision to identify as a woman, and if they refused to take showers at the same time, they'd get kicked out of the shelter.
'

'Karen Adell Scot, a local transgender advocate, even offered to train Naomi's House employees on how to recognize people just pretending to identify as the opposite gender.'

And surgery has fuck all to do with whether they are legally "female". Don't think that sleight of hand was missed.

And where they are legally female but not had surgery then there will be some female spaces that they could legitimately enter (toilets, some refuges with single room provision) and some that that it wouldn't (open changing rooms and showers).

There is so much black and white inflexible thinking here, it's so biased and reductive. No understanding of nuance and context. Just this dogmatic immunity to the complexities of human experience and behaviour.

I get define my boundaries. No one else does. And my boundaries say "no men in women's private spaces".

No understanding of nuance and context.

By the time a woman has gone through the nuances, wrestled with the context - she might well be dead.

Well done you.

I hear you, @lovetheway. I, too, have Asperger's Syndrome.

For me, biology trumps feelings. As I have said before - I don't care who or what you identify as.

If your identity does not equal reality that is where I draw the line.

Even these lovely ladies can't help but tell it like it is.

There is so much black and white inflexible thinking here, it's so biased and reductive. No understanding of nuance and context. Just this dogmatic immunity to the complexities of human experience and behaviour.

I agree this is very complex behaviour we are dealing with. Reducing the word female to mean nothing in law is a dangerous dogma. We are not immune to this intention. We need to be inflexible in our position on this abuse of human rights.

You don't get to define other people or their identities, only your own

Its going to be difficult for me to define my own identity when the terms 'sex' and 'woman' have been rendered meaningless.

@Upstartcrow, your right to define your identity is being taken away by TRAs and their handmaidens.

Yes, that was my comment

Its going to be difficult for me to define my own identity when the terms 'sex' and 'woman' have been rendered meaningless.

USA
Opinion piece by one of the female students with background including their recent failed legal challenge & hopes for future:
"I don’t have a problem sharing a bathroom with someone who identifies as transgender — provided they are the same sex I am. I do have trouble with a policy that says anyone who’s in an opposite-sex mood today can stroll in and observe me in my intimate moments — and with school officials who value the feelings of a few students more than the dignity and privacy of all those in their care.

It’s my hope that the judges who may hear our case going forward will understand that better than our school administrators have — and take more seriously their responsibility to protect girls’privacy where it should be most protected: in the girls’ room."
www.philly.com/philly/opinion/commentary/boyertown-transgender-bathroom-lgbtq-gender-identiy-philadelphia-suburbs-20180524.html

(extract)
"A U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals panel took less than 20 minutes to deny an appeal by students who sought to protect their privacy rights in their public high school’s restrooms and locker rooms.

According to multiple reports, just four minutes into the plaintiff attorney’s oral argument, U.S. Circuit Judge Theodore McKee forbade him to define the words “sex” and “opposite sex,” undermining Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF) attorney Randall Wenger’s ability to adequately defend his clients’ cause on reasonable grounds.

In the end, the three-judge panel took less than 20 minutes to unanimously rule in favor of the school board’s formerly unpublicized policy allowing students to use opposite sex restrooms and locker rooms based on their self-proclaimed gender identity."
www.lifesitenews.com/news/circuit-court-rules-in-favor-of-high-school-trans-locker-room-with-no-delib

I tell you what, Margaret Attwood must feel quite upstaged by all this. She wrote a work of speculative fiction about women being enslaved, exploited and turned into non-people. She wouldn't have dared to write one about women being erased from existence altogether - it would have seemed too unlikely. Yet here, it seems, we are.

Parliamentary petition link: petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118

"The government proposes to amend the law to allow people to self-identify as men or women, and to stop allowing organisations in sensitive situations to exclude people of the opposite birth sex. We call for women to be consulted on how to protect women and girls' rights, safety, privacy and dignity.

More details
We call for:

• Respectful and evidence-based discussion about the impact of proposed changes and for women's voices to be heard.

• The government to consult with women’s organisations on how self-declaration would impact on women-only services and spaces, data-gathering, and monitoring of sex-based discrimination.

• The principle of single-sex spaces to be upheld – and where necessary extended."

womansplaceuk.org
fairplayforwomen.com

No problem OldMan

Margaret Atwood was tweeting TWAW earlier this year. Go figure.

"I don’t have a problem sharing a bathroom with someone who identifies as transgender — provided they are the same sex I am.

How is she defining sex?

Yes she is
twitter.com/margaretatwood/status/961914541494870016?lang=en

Absolutely. Gender treachery. That’s what they’re getting Ofglen for in the TV series. And there are people writing this stuff, now! Now they’re doing it! It’s about transgender people mostly, and they don’t exactly call it treachery, but they’re having none of it.
www.teenvogue.com/story/margaret-atwood-the-handmaids-tale-interview

Perhaps you never really got her in the first place?

How is she defining sex?

'She' is Alexis Lightcap, a student at Boyertown Area Senior High School.
The quote is taken from an eloquently written article, 'Girls and boys shouldn't do everything together' where she explains clearly her experience, motivation and opinion:
(extract)
"I was a junior in high school when I ducked into the girls’ room at school one day to find … a boy. I froze. Three years at this particular school, and that had never happened to me before. The girls’ bathroom had always been the girls’ getaway place — a place for privacy, mostly, but also a little refuge — a place to get away from boys, maybe talk about boys, but not meet boys.

My first thought was to get out. My second was to find my teacher and let her know what had happened. The teacher told me to tell the principal, so I did. And the principal did nothing."

I reccommend reading the whole article. We often comment on here that we would like to be able to also ask about women and girls (WAWAG)
A girl has spoken up and is an important voice to listen to:
www.philly.com/philly/opinion/commentary/boyertown-transgender-bathroom-lgbtq-gender-identiy-philadelphia-suburbs-20180524.html

According to multiple reports, just four minutes into the plaintiff attorney’s oral argument, U.S. Circuit Judge Theodore McKee forbade him to define the words “sex” and “opposite sex,” undermining Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF) attorney Randall Wenger’s ability to adequately defend his clients’ cause on reasonable grounds.

So fucking sinister and Orwellian.

I just get more upset every day. What are we going to do?

It's so simple. If you're born with a penis (XY) you are a male. If you're born with eggs (XX) you're a female.

How you act and appear is up to you.

SMG: you are not in a position to ask people to define sex. You really aren't.

Why are people so dense as to think reproductive biology is unimportant? It is not an added extra tone the existence of the human race, because, without it, none of us would be here. And it can only be successfully achieved by a male and a female gamete. What the hell is the point of posing as an egg holder? It's crazy and I'm sick of it.

Actually trying to get it enshrined in law that they should be treated as egg holders when they haven't got an ovum between them. It's mental.

SupermatchGame You've misunderstood what Margaret Atwood was saying in that article in a way that's actually quite ironic.
She isnt talking about gender critical feminists or womens reaction. She's talking about men in power, and authoritarianism.

that is where your boundaries stop

Oh really? When you cannot define man, or male, you think you have the right to define MY boundaries? I think not SMG.

Transactivists like you exploited women's kindness towards dysphoric men. This is why you now find us saying NO to all. You have only yourselves to blame.

How unbelievably ignorant and insulting you are to say that if you are infertile, your sexual is indeterminate.

Autocorrect: sexual = sex