Strong words from feminists unhappy with trans exclusionary ideology..

[crispbuttyfan]

freedomnews.org.uk/its-spelt-sisterhood-not-cis-terhood-statement/

a little taster of the content, not my words....

"We are disgusted by the TERF techniques of bullying trans people and their friends and comrades. TERFs stand against a vulnerable minority by refusing their right to exist, using their dead names, doxxing them, smearing them online and in the press and waging a fear campaign, all whilst accusing trans women of being a possible legal and physical threat to cis women. These techniques are not consistent with their announced aim of getting legislation refused by parliament and belie the TERFs real agenda of intolerance.

We are sick and tired of TERF alarmism. There is no evidence that trans women are in any way a threat to cis women. To the contrary, there is a lot of evidence that TERFs feed the prejudice against trans women. The countries which introduced their own versions of GRA are not experiencing the problems the TERFs associate with allowing trans people to determine their own gender."

someone trans supportive

I support trans people to live their lives as they wish. But I don't support self ID. See the difference? Sadly you don't seem equipped to understand that.

What definition of transwoman is understood by those responding to that survey? If it’s ‘Haley from Corrie ‘ then I get it - not representative of the reality though, is it.

Here is Maria's account. I was there and her account matches what I saw.

The 'don't snitch' carceral BS is because they don't want their female shields to report the violent men in their movement.

They have no hestitation in reporting women they don't agree with for any imagined crime they can think of to any authority they can think of.

I love the way every time a trans positive survey is posted, everyone who replied was stupid and has no idea what they are answering, only mumsnet feminist board users are privvy to special information yet undiscovered by wider society...... what is it that gets used a lot on here dunning something or other....

Still no evidence then crisp. Why don't you just admit you made it up to give your argument more weight.

So I've never actually seen Corrie. There was a transwoman character played by a woman, and that's the character who people (TRA and some ploppers here) keep referring to as their hypothetical "well obviously women won't mind" person? Am I getting this right? Because if so, well, duh - women OK with women in women's bathrooms, more news at all.

Or 11, even.

Noqonterfi

don't make me laugh, you don't have a clue what self-id GRA is about, you were still wittering about sex-segregated spaces before, I already told you, and for the last time I'm not interested in your sea-lioning..... claim that as a 'victory' if it's so important to you..... personally I couldn't care less, like y'know I'm an adult....... some of the 'debates' on here are like going back in time to school, infant school at that!

Helen Lewis in New Statesman,
(extracts)
"The implication was that MacLachlan, now 61, wants all transgender people dead – something that seems absolutely barking until you realise this is quite a common accusation in activist spaces..."
"The Wolf affair also demonstrates another alarming phenomenon: the left getting high on its own supply of self-righteousness. “Some feminists have a different conception of gender to me” gets smudged into “some feminists talk about me in ways that I find offensive” and on to “some feminists are basically Hitler, trying to eradicate people like me”.

Once you reach the last statement, then of course you can slap a woman and still think of yourself as a good person. She wants to kill you; a mere punch is self-defence. (I’m not exaggerating about the language. The Edinburgh branch of Action for Trans Health tweeted the day after the attack: “Punching TERFs is the same as punching Nazis. Fascism must be smashed with the greatest violence to ensure our collective liberation from it.”)"

www.newstatesman.com/politics/feminism/2018/04/madness-our-gender-debate-where-feminists-defend-slapping-60-year-old?amp&__twitter_impression=true

You can't argue that penises don't matter when the people you're arguing with have suffered thousands of years of oppression and violence precisely because they don't have them.

Total gaslighting, victim blaming bullshit.

Male-bodied people assaulting women then blaming the woman for the assault.

When the TERFs recently prosecuted an anarchist trans woman for assault, with the help of the metropolitan police and the magistrates court, they sent a message to us: they believe that their opinions are more important than the well documented physical and mental risks the police and the courts system pose to minorities. We think this is abhorrent.

A male-bodied 20-something assaulted a 60 year old woman, Maria McLachlan. She was standing up for her own safety.

As Tara Wood / Wolf is not a post-op transsexual but a male bodied person with make up who IDs as female, then if TW is worried about hassle in prison they can take the make up off and dress like a man. Or - now here's a radical thought - not go around beating up old ladies FFS.

It was a deliberate provocation of vulnerable trans community to get the desired result of them being arrested much like the actions of the Forward Intelligence Teams used by the police.

More bullshit. Maria wasn't particularly active as a gender critical feminist. Prior to the event, her blog was all about how homeopathy is bullshit - not about trans issues. She was at the event out of curiosity, and filmed the TRAs who were chanting loudly in a public space - Speaker's Corner no less, - after the TRAs had got the venue for the feminist's event shut down.

We will never accept snitching to the police after an event, when the personal risk is over, to be a valid form of resistance.

How fucking dare they suggest that an older woman who was assaulted in this way should not press charges. So, they want to keep trans people out of prisons, and want those same people to be free to beat up old ladies who think stuff they don't like? How can anyone take this stuff seriously? Beating up pensioners is never a good look.

What’s more, while punching people is almost never a good thing
Notice the almost - they won't actually condemn TW assaulting a 60 year old.

what needs to be pointed out here is that claims this was an example of male on female violence are unfounded and bigoted. The aim of labelling it that is to add fuel to an alarmist scare campaign against trans people.

TW has not changed gender legally. TW is legally male. TW has a male body. Male violence is a problem. To call this female on female violence is an absolute insult to women who are victims of male violence. Until it can be proved that transwomen have female pattern violence (which is unlikely at the evidence points the other way) then it's absolutely a distortion of the truth to categorise this incident as female on female violence.

Finally we believe that contrary to the propaganda spread by them that it is the TERFs who are perpetrators of violent hatred, not trans women.

Maria was there to attend a talk, and took a video of people making a public spectacle of herself.

Tara Wolf posted on FB their intent to attack TERFs before going there. TW and friends repeatedly attacked Maria, stole her camera, broke and discarded it after stealing the SD card. TW has been found guilty in a court of law.

Yet these people have the temerity to accuse the people who stand by the 60 year old of violence.

Truly Orwellian thinking. Disturbing as fuck.

Here's Maria's account. It includes unedited videos of the attack from three different angles.

www.skepticat.org/2017/09/when-vicious-entitled-thugs-attack-i-fight-back/#more-2787

I love the way every time a trans positive survey is posted, everyone who replied was stupid and has no idea what they are answering

No that's not it. Surveys are only as good as the person who designed them. There's a whole art to designing questions in order to get the responses you want. The fact that your survey only asked about toilets should raise questions. I would imagine most of us have used unisex toilets before without anything bad happening. We can all imagine sharing a unisex toilet and most of us aren't bothered by it. Possibly around the 70% mark.

Why didn't the survey ask about changing rooms, or hospital wards or dormitory accommodation?

I'm happy to share a loo with you =/= I'm happy to get naked in front of you.

Lol. All those shouty meaningless words to try and deflect. Shout and stamp then crisp to try and hide the fact you have no evidence. Sounds like you belong back in the school yard yourself Best not to keep claiming that the majority of women support self ID though when you have no evidence for that. Otherwise, ya know, someone else will probably ask for your non existent evidence as well. And you still won't have any.

Of course it's relevant, Crisp. You posted a big ranty thing signed by people who have threatened, incited, condoned and actually been violent towards women, including at speakers corner. You called them 'feminists'.

The widespread lapping up of the 'zapruder interpretation' following speakers corner was completely awful. Imagine being punched repeatedly in the head and the whole of social media going 'didn't happen / you started it / serves you right'.

It's far more relevant than most of your posts on this thread.

R0wantrees cross posts! That tweet is damning isn't it.

I can only think Maria's lawyer (duty solicitor?) can't have been that on it - else why was this not made more of in court?

It plainly shows prior intent and also that TW subscribes to exactly the kind of thinking in the article you linked - that's it's totally fine to assault older women who disagree with them as they've convinced themselves, totally erroneously, that we're fascists.

TW and friends still think they're the victims here. Classic narc, abusive behaviour.

'Jen Izaakson report from the courtroom, as Tara Wolf is tried for assaulting Maria MacLachlan.' (Wolf was found guilty of assault)

www.feministcurrent.com/2018/04/27/trans-identified-male-tara-wolf-charged-assault-hyde-park-attack/
(extract)
"Four witnesses testified in Wolf’s defence.

The first was Ananya Jaidev, who is a main organizer with South East London Sisters Uncut, and who snatched the glasses off a woman’s face outside a Woman’s Place UK meeting in February. When asked how she knew who was an “enemy” and who was an ally at the Hyde Park incident, Jaidev explained she knew which side was which because “we were all queer and trans and they were older and not queer.” The prosecution played footage that showed Jaidev standing close to MacLachlan, in full view of the whole incident. Nonetheless, Jaidev claimed she did not see any of the violence against MacLachlan. “I wasn’t paying attention,” she said.

Next, a man named Laurel Uziell testified that he saw the entire event up close and claimed MacLachlan attacked Wolf. Video showed that Uziell, was goading Long as she sang, fairly far away from the incident and facing the opposite direction.

Devawn Wilkinson, a woman who is on film harassing Miranda Yardley, a transsexual and one of the speakers at the event on September 13th testified that “TERFS hate Trans people,” “TERFs are fascists,” and “TERFs are a danger to queers.” Devawn also stated she was one of those responsible for pressing the original venue for the meeting to withdraw, prompting women to meet in Hyde Park before heading to what had to be a secret location.

The final defence witness was Katherine Higgins. Video showed Higgins at at Hyde Park, watching as her friend is shoved by the man with the ponytail after he attacked MacLachlan. Higgins stated she, like Devawn, had campaigned to get the first venue booked for the meeting to cancel. She admitted she did not see anything, but instead testified about the context, stating she was a “cis woman” and that she was there that day to stop the meeting from happening. Higgins was the only witness who didn’t use the term “TERF,” instead referring to the women gathered in Hyde Park as “activists” and “feminists."'

crispbuttyfan I expect there are plenty of trans women I would not mind sharing a bathroom with and even more trans men. It doesn't mean I am pro self id.

And if you had asked me that question even three years ago I would have almost certainly assumed that trans women were people who looked female, had had surgery and taken hormones and been through a process.

I would not have imagined for one minute they would simply be any male who said they were a woman.

If you want to know what people think about self id, I think you need to explain to them that it means any male can self id as a woman.

Plus that letter is clearly not written by feminists.

People have eyes.

We are disgusted by the TERF techniques of bullying trans people and their friends and comrades

Tell San Francisco Public Library to Remove Exhibit of Weapons Intended to Kill Feminists
www.change.org/p/tell-san-francisco-public-library-to-remove-exhibit-of-weapons-intended-to-kill-feminists

Transgender identified males speaking for women are now also feminist identified males speaking for feminists.
Everything old is new again.

Seriously, why should we give the tiniest shiniest shite about this pile of woman hating bilge signed by people like Tara Wood and Sisters Uncut? These are people who have used intimidation, harrassment, incitement to violence and actual violence against us.

They really can fuck right off.

Co-signing this.

Comment by Ada Cable after T Wolf's trial which seemed to be shared by many TRAs.

Ada was also involved with NUStrans 18. (the one with the occupation of the women's toilet)
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3237230-NUS-Conference-breaks-down-after-the-UK-Border-Force-Arrive?pg=1&messages=100

Jaidev explained she knew which side was which because “we were all queer and trans and they were older and not queer.”'

There were plenty of lesbian women there. Are they excluded from "queer"? What does "queer" look like? Given that many people are non binary or asexual? But heterosexual?

The judge made it quite clear that they are an adherent of the 1st rule of misogyny: Women are responsible for what men do to them.
He should be removed from the bench after that shameful performance.

Good Mumsnet thread here, starring some of our fave tweeters including the lovely Ada:

Fun new game: TERF translator
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3242186-Fun-new-game-TERF-translator