Strong words from feminists unhappy with trans exclusionary ideology..

[crispbuttyfan]

freedomnews.org.uk/its-spelt-sisterhood-not-cis-terhood-statement/

a little taster of the content, not my words....

"We are disgusted by the TERF techniques of bullying trans people and their friends and comrades. TERFs stand against a vulnerable minority by refusing their right to exist, using their dead names, doxxing them, smearing them online and in the press and waging a fear campaign, all whilst accusing trans women of being a possible legal and physical threat to cis women. These techniques are not consistent with their announced aim of getting legislation refused by parliament and belie the TERFs real agenda of intolerance.

We are sick and tired of TERF alarmism. There is no evidence that trans women are in any way a threat to cis women. To the contrary, there is a lot of evidence that TERFs feed the prejudice against trans women. The countries which introduced their own versions of GRA are not experiencing the problems the TERFs associate with allowing trans people to determine their own gender."

ROwantreees, thank you for posting that.

It really goes to show, doesn't it.

Most people are against Self ID though.

Wings Over Scotland commissioned a couple of polls via PanelBase. Each with over 1,000 people.

55% of people in his English survey thought Self ID was a bad idea.
26% didn't know
Only 19% thought it a good idea.

(See the image to see this result by gender)

In Scotland, very similar:
58% thought it a bad idea
24% didn't know
Only 18% thought Self ID was a good idea.

(See the image to see this result by sexuality of respondent)

Wings Over Scotland on Twitter

Heather Brunskell-Evans describes her experience at the 'We Need to Talk' meeting in Bristol:
(extract)
"to illustrate the complexity of my feelings about the political protest in Bristol. I found myself trapped in a stairwell by masked trans activists who believed me to be the oppressor, equivalent to Israeli soldiers, and who believed transwomen to be actual women and the most victimised and oppressed of all social groups."

morningstaronline.co.uk/article/assault-free-speech-and-free-thought

Michael Biggs Associate Professor in Sociology and Fellow of St Cross College writes:
'Free speech at Oxford:
Do women have the right to meet to discuss legislation?'
users.ox.ac.uk/~sfos0060/FreeSpeechOxford.pdf

he concludes:
"I have entered this debate not because I am a feminist but because freedom of speech is one of the highest values of a democratic society, and the basic foundation of university life.
Transgender activism poses a grave threat to freedom of speech. I think of the young MPhil student who had to disguise herself to attend this meeting because she feared the reaction of fellow students. This is the generation that we have educated."

From Crispy's link:

Would you describe yourself ... %
... as very prejudiced against people who are transgender 2
… a little prejudiced 15
… or not prejudiced at all 82

Seems a biased wording? Who would describe themselves as very prejudiced? What woman, with their 'be nice' socialisation, would be comfortable expressing a concerned opinion with that phrasing?

It also asks How comfortable would feel for a …
… transgender woman
to use a female toilet
(asked of women only)
With no definition of Transgender woman - though I note (and cringe) that transgender woman is formatted adjective/noun. In the intro we do get this gem - For example, the first parliamentary inquiry into
transphobia and discrimination in 2016 reported widespread societal
and systemic transphobia, citing a multitude of issues such as
the way the NHS deals with transgender patients (in particular by
medicalising trans identity, i.e. considering it as a condition that
needs to be treated)
I wonder if it was explained clearly to respondents that 'transgender woman' does not necessarily mean any medical transition? And as pp noted, no mention of asking about hospital wards, changing rooms, school camp sleeping arrangements, rape and dv shelters...
I tried to find more detailed info but the BSA site isn't that helpful and I've run out of time.

Sorry, apparently I suck at formatting myself! Inside the * are supposed to be bolded quotes from the document.

Fantastic contribution from an Oxford prof. It's not just women's rights they are after. To get there, they have to steamroller language, debate and free speech. Thank God people are now noticing.

The point about female in female vs male on female violence is important.

In court, a witness was forced to use pronouns she didn’t want to. That creates a cognitive load which disadvantages the witness.

The framing of the violence as female on female also serves to reduce the ‘severity’ of it in the minds of the court. Picture in your head what comes to mind when you are told ‘man hit woman’ and then contrast with what comes into your head when it’s ‘woman hit woman.’ Be honest - was your female scenario a bit less severe? A bit more catfight than a bloke punching someone?

That cognitive bias to a jury could have a significant effect. It also biases media coverage.

This is also why they need ‘cis allies’ because the photos of a bunch of women shouting at other women will be dismissed if they’re in the papers, whereas a bunch of large masked men facing off a bunch of pensionable age women in the street will elicit a more strong response in the viewer.

The two images pencils posted above illustrate this perfectly.

Also Heather's article which I had not seen

The 'don't snitch' carceral BS is because they don't want their female shields to report the violent men in their movement.

Yes.

This is yet more co-opting other people's oppression. Actual minorities are wary of calling the police because of institutional prejudice meaning they're more likely to be arrested themselves, than have their report actually listened to.

These privileged white males aren't scared of that, they're scared of being punished for things they've actually done.

Yes, "carceral feminism" (second only to "white feminism" as the lefty dude-bro's put down of choice) is a shocking appropriation of other people's experiences.

It starts from the uncontentious observation that black people (in the US, where the term originates) are more likely to be given prison sentences, and longer ones, for the same offence than white people, and that this is morally wrong (as indeed it is - I think we can all agree this is obviously wrong).

It then goes for a totally invalid move to a conclusion that doesn't follow: "therefore", its adherents say, "women are becoming enforcers for this institutionalised racism when they call for rapists and perpetrators of domestic violence to be arrested, tried and imprisoned for their offences if found guilty."

It's a totally poisonous trail of unsound inferences, from the true premise "sentencing in the US is institutionally racist" through "therefore imprisoning people for violent crimes they have chosen to commit is wrong" to the old misogynist favourite "and that's the fault of uppity women."

Or TL:DR - it's all her fault that I have to face consequences for my actions.

The 'don't snitch' carceral BS is because they don't want their female shields to report the violent men in their movement.

If anybody doubts this, google the "Comrade Delta" fiasco in the SWP.

Attempting to shut down feminist opinion
Misleading (cis- is not "sexist" it means someone whose gender identity matches their genitals e.g. cis-male cis-female, as opposed to ttans-man Trans-women)

I wonder if it was explained clearly to respondents that 'transgender woman' does not necessarily mean any medical transition?

A lot of people I've come across also are confused as to whether a "transgender/trans woman" would be a TIF or TIM.

And I'm pretty sure it wasn't explained to respondents at all, because no one else gets to have an opinion. Why are you obsessed with other people's genitals? What does it have to do with you, bigot?

Damn - is there any other situation in which you would carelessly apply a term to a whole group of people, have them repeatedly tell you that they found that term offensive, then insist on keeping on using that word? Would you do it with the N word, the P word, the T word?

I do not have a gender identity. Gender to me is an oppressive set of sexist stereotypes used to stop me reaching my full potential. It is something that is done to me, not something I identify with. To tell me I ought to be happy to accept that my "gender identity" [sic] aligns with my genitals is to tell me that I ought to be happy to identify with my oppression. It's like listening to a racist insist that P* is just an abbreviation of Pakistani.

Please stop doing it. Please stop pretending that it is just a neutral description. It is not.

What, seriously, do you mean by female gender identity, Damn?

Do you mean an inner sense that one is and could not be other than that sex?
Or tends to follow the stereotypes of that sex and actively insulted or distressed by being thought the opposite?
Or reconciled to being recognizably female despite irritation with societal expectations/lack of stereotyped behaviour?
Or prefers to be called she not he?

The first two don't apply to me. The latter two probably do (though as I have a neutral name and title, I'm not sure how many of my long-distance colleagues know I'm female).

I still can't tell from your post whether you mean 'trans-female' to be actually female and identifying as trans, or male identifying as female.

FermatsTheorem

Seconded. By forcing the term cis on me suggests I subscribe to regressive harmful gender stereotypes. I don't.

Just stop.

FermatsTheorem

the word cis is literally in the oxford dictionary and an established word, unlike all the labels that get thrown at trans people such as T.I.M., transcult, autogenyphiles, etc etc

Cis does not mean you live to or accept gendered expectations whatsoever, thats a mindless anti-trans interpretation, gender non-conforming men/women who are not trans are still cis.......

feminine woman, who is not trans = cis
Butch woman, who is not trans = cis
woman with internalised misogyny who is not trans = cis
Strong independent feminist who isn't trans = cis

Trans woman = not cis.

Refer to this anytime I hope it helps..

the word cis is literally in the oxford dictionary and an established word,

Yes we know it’s a word. Cunt is in there too bitvits not something most people want to be called. We know it exists. We are rejecting it as a label for ourselves as grossly offensive.

If we are playing offence bingo it works both ways. You don’t get to be prissy about language used to describe one group while flinging words around around about another that they find offensive.

Absolutely no women ever = cis
Transwomen = trans. Or whatever you prefer.

Hope that helps.

It really doesn't help me know what you mean, Crispbuttyfan, but thanks for trying.

I already know, and have done since O-level Latin, that cis means 'on the same side as'. I would assume though that it's a back-formation to use it here as the opposite of trans, which was originally short for transition rather than meaning 'on the opposite side of'.

I am not 'on the side of feminine inner gender identity'.

Refer to it any time. Laminate it, the angry spittle wipes off easier.

Tara Wolf is the 'trans' creature who was convicted of the assault on the lady at the gathering in Hyde Park.

If 'Tara' is typical of the 'feminist' signatories, then I doubt there's a true feminist amongst them

crispbuttyfan

That isn't the oed definition of cis though is it.

The oed definition of cis refers molecular structures as discussed many times on this board.
The oed definition of cis gender is Denoting or relating to a person whose sense of personal identity and gender corresponds with their birth sex.. This requires a gender identity which I don't buy into.

Bowl

Yes we know it’s a word. Cunt is in there too bitvits not something most people want to be called

Fucking spot on.