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Original poster

Posie: truthcrime harassment continues

344 replies

Pratchet · 06/05/2018 08:42

Susie Green from Mermaids has appealed against the CPS decision not to pursue Posie.

Posie described truthfully what Susie Green did to her child in Thailand at the age of sixteen: surgery involving the removal of genitals, a decision so shocking to the Thai government they raised the age bar for such operations to 18.

A woman is being pursued and harassed for telling the truth. Can we show as much support as possible please.

OP posts:
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SupermatchGame · 08/05/2018 21:16

I've posted what evidence there is highlighting the observation that they did not find a male pattern of criminality.

I think you're sealioning now.

This means that for the 1989 to 2003 group, we did not find a male pattern of criminality.

BetsyM00 · 08/05/2018 21:33

That may be because that group was mixed sex.

OldCrone · 08/05/2018 22:02

SupermatchGame
This is from Dhejne et al 2011, which I think is the study you're referring to.

In this study, male-to-female individuals had a higher risk for criminal convictions compared to female controls but not compared to male controls. This suggests that the sex reassignment procedure neither increased nor decreased the risk for criminal offending in male-to-females. By contrast, female-to-males were at a higher risk for criminal convictions compared to female controls and did not differ from male controls, which suggests increased crime proneness in female-to-males after sex reassignment.

That seems fairly clear. Where is the post 1989 data published?

Original poster
Pratchet · 09/05/2018 08:22

I've posted what evidence there is highlighting the observation that they did not find a male pattern of criminality.

There is no such observation. The opposite observation is made.

Posie: truthcrime harassment continues
OP posts:
Original poster
Pratchet · 09/05/2018 08:25

Supermatch: unless you have a comatstibe cohort of men who also got better access to mental health care, the finding stands. In fact when you look at the anecdotal evidence for trans-identified males committing violent and sexual
crime, it seems disproportionately high. I'm sure you would love a study on those figures, wouldn't you?

OP posts:
Original poster
Pratchet · 09/05/2018 08:26

comatstibe

Comparative

OP posts:
Sunkisses · 09/05/2018 14:32

#IStandWithPosie and #IDon'tStandWithCastration

SupermatchGame · 09/05/2018 14:50

There is no such observation. The opposite observation is made.

<
No the opposite observation is made only for those that transitioned before 1989. 30 - 40 years ago when transgender medicine and mental health services were less effective and stigma was higher. (In the researcher's words).

Posie: truthcrime harassment continues
SupermatchGame · 09/05/2018 14:56

unless you have a comparative cohort of men who also got better access to mental health care,

There is a comparative group of transsexuals - those that transitioned in the: 1989 to 2003 group, where we did not find a male pattern of criminality.

Where is there evidence that transitioned women now have a violent crime rate more similar to males than females?

OnTheList · 09/05/2018 15:17

OK lets say that better mental health care did mean transwomen transitioning later had a crime rate similar to natal females. Why are transactivists fighting to remove mental health care from transsexual people? It seems nuts. But then again, most stuff transactivists fight fopr seems nuts, as they are on the whole just MRAs in disguise.

I have always been willing to believe that post op transpeople have a lower crime rate than men. Because I believe testosterone plays a part in how violent and such men are, and lowering testosterone will lower the violence. This also makes sense when you add in that transmen commit more crime when on testosterone. I think a larger part of it all is socialization mind, and I don't think you can realistically remove that aspect no matter what. But yeah, lowering crime rate makes sense to me. BUT, this is for post operative transsexual people.

You have to consider that these days, trans means anyone who says they are trans. And this includes crossdressers. And with sexual crime, crossdressing is a very very common 'hobby' among sex offenders. I think this accounts for 50% of transpeople in prison being there for sex offenses. As obviously, if crossdressers are classed as trans, and sex offenders are overrepresented in crossdressers, then sex offenders will be overrepresented in the 'trans population'.

Basically, I am willing to believe that in post-op transsexual people, they have a lowered crime rate than men. But, trans covers a broad spectrum of people now, not just transsexual people, and certainly not just post-op transsexual. And its these 'other trans' people who are fighting for access to female areas, who are wanting to be able to get a GRC without the diagnosis of sex dysphoria, as they do not have sex dysphoria. SO in short, I don't really see what use that study is when considering 'trans people' today.

OnTheList · 09/05/2018 15:20

Also

So in short, I don't really see what use that study is when considering 'trans people' today.

Goes for both those arguing again st the study, and those who use the study as 'proof' that transwomen are just as violent as men.

Of course its not up to me what other people post. just I don't see what use it is given it was only ever post op transsexual people anyway, which is useless today as 'trans' is so wide.

JoanSummers · 09/05/2018 15:32

Where is the evidence that men who identify as anything other than 'men' have different behaviour as any other men?

I'm so fed up of women being asked to prove silly stuff like this. You're the one begging the question Supermatch - you show us peer reviewed indisputable evidence that men who don't identify as men are different to other men, in criminal behaviour or any other way.

OnTheList · 09/05/2018 15:37

Where is the evidence that men who identify as anything other than 'men' have different behaviour as any other men?

Quite. Why on earth would just saying you identify as something other than a man, make you any less violent that all other men?! I don't get this at all.

JoanSummers · 09/05/2018 15:40

I'd really like to read about Posie and what's going on with this, it's really off putting seeing a thread about a woman who is being persecuted taken over by someone who appears to be trolling.

Ereshkigal · 09/05/2018 15:46

I'm so fed up of women being asked to prove silly stuff like this. You're the one begging the question Supermatch - you show us peer reviewed indisputable evidence that men who don't identify as men are different to other men, in criminal behaviour or any other way.

Yep. The claim that they are any different is for the claimant to prove. It has not been satisfactorily demonstrated.

R0wantrees · 09/05/2018 15:54

JoanSummers
She has a website www.theposieparker.com

R0wantrees · 09/05/2018 15:56

link to Linda Bellos' statement yesterday following CPS decision not to pursue a case:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3244214-Linda-Bellos-a-relief-to-know-sanity-has-returned-to-the-notion-of-British-justice-CPS-decision-not-to-pursue-a-case

JoanSummers · 09/05/2018 15:57

Thank you :)

Id also like to read women discussing this without constant demands for evidence from someone who refuses to accept any and won't provide any themselves.

R0wantrees · 09/05/2018 15:57

Yes, me too!

SupermatchGame · 09/05/2018 16:52

OnTheList OK lets say that better mental health care

And better trans health care also according to the researcher

did mean transwomen transitioning later had a crime rate similar to natal females. Why are transactivists fighting to remove mental health care from transsexual people?

No idea.

It seems nuts.

Yes

But then again, most stuff transactivists fight fopr seems nuts, as they are on the whole just MRAs in disguise.

Quite possibly yes. I'm not claiming to speak for anyone other than myself.

I have always been willing to believe that post op transpeople have a lower crime rate than men. Because I believe testosterone plays a part in how violent and such men are, and lowering testosterone will lower the violence. This also makes sense when you add in that transmen commit more crime when on testosterone. I think a larger part of it all is socialization mind, and I don't think you can realistically remove that aspect no matter what. But yeah, lowering crime rate makes sense to me. BUT, this is for post operative transsexual people.

Yes.

You have to consider that these days, trans means anyone who says they are trans. And this includes crossdressers. And with sexual crime, crossdressing is a very very common 'hobby' among sex offenders. I think this accounts for 50% of transpeople in prison being there for sex offenses. As obviously, if crossdressers are classed as trans, and sex offenders are overrepresented in crossdressers, then sex offenders will be overrepresented in the 'trans population'.

Yes. That's why I don't want crossdressing males in female only spaces.

SO in short, I don't really see what use that study is when considering 'trans people' today.

It is of use when there is a small but vocal radical feminist voice, (daily on this site) claiming that no medically/ surgically transitioned women should be in female only spaces because they have a high crime rate.

SupermatchGame · 09/05/2018 16:54

Also

So in short, I don't really see what use that study is when considering 'trans people' today.

Goes for both those arguing again st the study, and those who use the study as 'proof' that transwomen are just as violent as men.

Sorry now you've lost me. Are you arguing with you or me?

LangCleg · 09/05/2018 16:55

Another one wishing the thread would get back to its topic - Posie Parker and the outcome of the police investigation.

SupermatchGame · 09/05/2018 17:01

JoanSummers Where is the evidence that men who identify as anything other than 'men' have different behaviour as any other men?

I wasn't talking about 'men who identify as anything other than men'. The conversation was at that point about trans women.

I'm so fed up of women being asked to prove silly stuff like this. You're the one begging the question Supermatch

No - I was responding to a malicious poster who was implying that transitioned/ trans women were a crime risk in female only spaces. There is no evidence today that they are.

you show us peer reviewed indisputable evidence that men who don't identify as men are different to other men, in criminal behaviour or any other way.

I don't need to. My comments were about trans women who have been through a medical process, not 'men who don't identify as men'. I'm not claiming that men who don't identify as men should be in women only spaces.

SupermatchGame · 09/05/2018 17:04

Joan, Lang

So you don't think it is appropriate that people should be able to challenge potentially damaging lies and misinformation? Particularly when it is damaging to trans women?

You can't bully me into silence.

OnTheList · 09/05/2018 17:05

Sorry now you've lost me. Are you arguing with you or me?

I am not arguing as such. Both those saying the study proves transwomen are as violent as men, and those saying the study proves the opposite...I don't see what use the study is for either view because...its only post operative transsexuals who were studied in the first place!

I know people want this to get back on topic, and this will be my last post on it besides checking for updates on posie Blush